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Thread: Uncontested scrums

      
  1. #11
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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    This is not the Cardiff Head. this is the head of the WRU referees department.

    Will I enforce the ruling? Well, My answer, here, must obviously be yes.
    Last edited by Marc Wakeham; 23-01-18 at 22:01.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    are you sure he was answering the question you thought he was being asked?

    this is one of those context questions - he might have been thinking about welsh league games. If he was asked straight out - Welsh Merit Table Div 5, Old Farts 3rd vs Llareggub 2nds - starts with 14 players each etc etc ... might he have given the same answer as the RFU I believe gave in England, and which we certainly got from our Society - - -- use a bit of referee discretion an common sense

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    It was very clear.

    "In 15-a-siderugby uncontested scrums must be 8 v 8". Now as the guy is the senior person in the WRU's referees department, I need to give appropriate weight to his opinion.

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    I wasn't questioning his authority, I was wondering if he would have answered differently to a question with a different context

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I wasn't questioning his authority, I was wondering if he would have answered differently to a question with a different context
    The Law Application Guideline from December 2017 specifically refers to games with 23 players per side:

    "Uncontested Scrums

    December 2017

    Uncontested scrums for matches that involve 23 players in a squad

    Some issues regarding the management of front row replacements and uncontested scrums have occurred recently. The law text and examples below are written to reinforce the application of current law: .... "

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I wasn't questioning his authority, I was wondering if he would have answered differently to a question with a different context
    THe context was very clear. UNcontest scrums require 8 players. End of. What I think of his "ruling" in neither here nor there. But I'd be a fool to ignore him.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    It was very clear.

    "In 15-a-side rugby uncontested scrums must be 8 v 8".
    Did he say what to do when it's not, or no longer 15 a side?
    That's what we are all getting at.

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  8. #18

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    This was sent to all RFU Referee Societies by Michael D Patz, RFU Match Official Development Manager.

    Summary of Global Law Trials (GLTs)
    Twitter Q&A with Matthew Carley
    Thursday 3rd August 2017

    Law 3: Number of Players. The Team
    Q: Numbers of players in an uncontested scrum. Does this also apply at U19s where
    we could see 7v 7?
    A: As referees we’d need to apply common sense here. If a game starts with 7v7, or
    7v8 and uncontested scrums are ordered, I’d suggest we’d stay with 7v7/7v8, etc. I’d
    recommend covering this off with captains/coaches before the game.
    Note: When teams start with less than fifteen players the referee may take a
    different approach following discussions with both captains. For example, a team
    starting a game with thirteen players and not able to provide a fully trained front row
    from the outset would not be expected to play with eight forwards and five backs at
    each scrum.

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  9. #19

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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    There you go. It seems so sensible I'd be surprised if the WRU really are taking a different approach

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Uncontested scrums

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Did he say what to do when it's not, or no longer 15 a side?
    That's what we are all getting at.

    He said All uncontested scrums (with the caveat about 7 a side /10 a side where specifics may alter the scrum numbers by definition) Must have 8 V 8. He was very clear. What ever numbers you begin with, any unciontested scrum must be a "full" scrum.

    For me there is a lack of logic. For example. You could have 8 v 6 contested (two flankers in the bin) But not 8 v 5 (uncontested) when the prop goes off an there is no STE replacement. Now I'd have thought that 8v6 contested is a potential safety issue where as 8 v 5 UNcontested carries little risk.


    I accept English referees (and other countries may have different guidance from their officials. But I reiterate this is not from a Society chairman this is from the WRU Referees' department and the Head of WRU referees at that.

    I do not feel it is right but I have no juristiction to overrule him.

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