Ireland v France - HIA issue

[L'irlandais]

For every expert that says one thing there are usually a dozen to be found who say the opposite.

Yes, I believe it was Philip Morris who perfected that strategy of providing contradictory «*proof*» to undermine the truth. That doesn’t change the fact Dr. O’D is speaking the truth. Nor does it change the fact that Elite rugby is unwilling/unable to change. Probably, because like in *Philip Morris’ case, the financial rewards are too great, to let annoying little facts get in the way.

*He’s at it again contradicting reports that e-cigarettes are far more dangerous than smoking ordainary ones. The stakes are higher, so expect a raft of pseudoscientific reports showing that e-cigarettes are not harmful.

[Pinky]

FWIW, I think the HIA protocol is good in parts and bad in others. I think it is neither designed to allow the potentially injured player back on or not, but rather it is designed to allow him to be replaced whilst the HIA is carried out, thereby removing the incentive for him to play on despite the potential injury. Once a player is off, how it is applied is a matter for the doctors and they do not have a 100% positive record in this regard. It is also the case that the HIA like blood injury appears to have been used to allow a different player to return to the game, ie one who was tactically substituted earlier and who without the HIA Blood bin would not be allowed back on unless they were in the front row.

[thepercy]

Just last week I had a coach telling me he was taking a player off for an HIA
I said . We don't have HIA at this level
He said .. I know, but I am taking him off to check him over
I said .. because you suspect he had a head injury ?
He said .. well , we're not sure .

Q .. would you let that player back on again later ?

(I had not personally witnessed any incident or anything else to make me think he had an injury )

If they are cleared by the medics/physio, they just can't have a sub come on for him in the mean time.

[Marc Wakeham]

Just last week I had a coach telling me he was taking a player off for an HIA
I said . We don't have HIA at this level
He said .. I know, but I am taking him off to check him over
I said .. because you suspect he had a head injury ?
He said .. well , we're not sure .

Q .. would you let that player back on again later ?

If they are cleared by the medics/physio, they just can't have a sub come on for him in the mean time.

NO because there is no HIA (at the level of the question) Unless HIA applies then we have "Recognise and remove" Which is basically "suspect and remove". If you have reason to suspect a concussion, and you do have reading the conversation above, the player is replaced and palys no more part in today's game.

[crossref]

If they are cleared by the medics/physio, they just can't have a sub come on for him in the mean time.

Except that it was a merit table game with interchanges so players can come and go anyway

And no one had come forward to me before the game declaring themself as a medic. It was just a coach and normal rag tag of supportes

[Marc Wakeham]

Surely you can't interchage with a player REPLACED. You can only do so with a Substituted player.

The point about a medic / physio out in the sticks is important. Who knows what (if any qualifications) a person claims to have.

[crossref]

Surely you can't interchage with a player REPLACED. You can only do so with a Substituted player.

Yes , in theory , but in practice when you have interchanges players are never replaced for injury , they are tactically substituted .

(This particular case we are discussing is special of course)

[Phil E]

Yes , in theory , but in practice when you have interchanges players are never replaced for injury , they are tactically substituted .

(This particular case we are discussing is special of course)

That's incorrect. You have to note if a player has been interchanged for injury or tactical. Sometimes its obvious, no mater what the coach tells you.

The concept of Replacements and Substitutes is redundant with Interchanges (even thought the words are still used they don't have the original meaning).

An interchange can be made for an injured player who can come back on again later. Only if he has been interchanged twice for injury does he have to stay off.

Regulation 13, Appendix 2

A Player who is previously injured in the match may return to play as a
Player Interchange provided the Player is fit to continue playing in the
match save that a Player who suffers two injuries in a match which has
necessitated that Player being replaced on each occasion is not permitted
to act as a replacement following the second injury.

[crossref]

That's incorrect. You have to note if a player has been interchanged for injury or tactical. Sometimes its obvious, no mater what the coach tells you.

The concept of Replacements and Substitutes is redundant with Interchanges (even thought the words are still used they don't have the original meaning).

An interchange can be made for an injured player who can come back on again later. Only if he has been interchanged twice for injury does he have to stay off.

Regulation 13, Appendix 2

A Player who is previously injured in the match may return to play as a
Player Interchange provided the Player is fit to continue playing in the
match save that a Player who suffers two injuries in a match which has
necessitated that Player being replaced on each occasion is not permitted
to act as a replacement following the second injury.

good post, thanks. Yes I had forgotten about the 'twice' rule.

Yes - sometimes it's obvious. But those obvious ones don't cause a problem as those guys never try to come back on again anyway

Other times, like the example I give, coaches cough up the real reason inadvertently

But in general terms- when a player goes off if you ask the coach he will always keep his options open and says it's tactical.

[Marc Wakeham]

Yes , in theory , but in practice when you have interchanges players are never replaced for injury , they are tactically substituted .

(This particular case we are discussing is special of course)

If a player is down injured and then goes off subbed I am going to be doubtful. Winded no problem anything else I'll watch carefully. Wil lI get conned? Or course I will. But I believe by being experienced I'll catch it more often than not.