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Thread: Mistaken Charge at PK

      
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    Default Mistaken Charge at PK

    This is prompted by a real incident I witnessed when I watched the last ten minutes of the game on the next pitch

    - less than three minutes to go in a very close game

    - Red are awarded a PK in the middle of the field, 30m from the blue goal line and elect to kick for goal

    - When Red 10 begins his run-up to kick Blue 15 has a rush to the head and charges ...

    - Red 10 immediately stops his run-up and doesn't take the kick

    - Blue 15 charges about 5m, his team mates yell and he realises his mistake, waves in apology and retreats, red faced, back into position, DoD award on its way.

    In the game I watched : the ref took no action, Red 10 took his time, re-settled back, re-addressed the ball.... and took the kick. Which missed.

    So some questions -

    1 - when the charge took place should the ref have blown his whistle and advanced the mark 10m?

    2 - on the day, having taken the kick from the original mark and missing, should the ref have advanced the kick 10m and allowed him to take it again?

    3 - after the charge, I assume we all agree that Red 10 would get another minute to take the kick

    4 - but harder question : after the charge and aborted kick - should the referee stop his watch until the kick is finally taken, or does his watch continue to run all through (v material in this game)


    Please reference your answers to the 2018 Law book if possible. (although having looked it up I think we may need the 2017 book as well, as the 2018 book is less clear)
    Last edited by crossref; 08-02-18 at 10:02.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    The relevant bit is this, but its not in the 2018 book only the 2017.

    (e) If the opposing team infringes while the kick is being taken but the kick at goal is successful,
    the goal stands. A further penalty is not awarded for the infringement.


    This bit is in 2018 though (my bold) and I would include charging as obstructing the kicker.

    15. The opposing team may not do anything to delay the kick or obstruct the kicker,
    including intentionally taking, throwing or kicking the ball out of reach of the team
    awarded the penalty. Sanction: Second penalty or free-kick, 10 metres in front of the
    original mark. The second penalty or free-kick must not be taken before the referee has
    made the mark.


    There is nothing about time and PK's, but since the law allows a conversion to be declined (to speed up the restart) I would take that to mean the clock doesn't stop during the PK, retake process. There is certainly nothing in the Time Law to support stopping the clock, but then neither is there anything about stopping the clock for scrum resets and that happens all the time at top level.

    If you thought the opposing team had deliberately contrived to delay the kick, in order to run the clock down to the end of the game, you could of course award a PK for deliberately offending, which would be a PK restart if the kick was successful.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    So the ref should have awarded the PK 10m further forward, at which time the clock starts ticking again (new PK).

    And FWIW I'd suggest its because of "The opposing team may not do anything to delay the kick " - running forward and the kicker stopping has delayed the kick etc. I'll not fight over it :-)


    didds

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    You may be correct in law to move the PK up 10m (and could they change mode of kick?) and if the kick was taken and missed (where the kicker had followed through on his first attempt) then another kick from the same spot would be in order.

    However, what the referee did seems to me to fit the occasion. Rekick and extend the time restriction. If he made it we wouldn't have this thread.

    Now, if you think it to be deliberate gamesmanship . . . . .
    Last edited by ChrisR; 08-02-18 at 12:02.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    To be clear
    - he allowed more time for the kick, but I don't know whether the original referee stopped his watch or not. I should have asked him after the game.
    - it really wasn't deliberate gamesmanship to charge (or if you like let's assume it wasn't)


    For me
    1 - he should have blown whistle and advanced 10m
    2 - technically, having missed, I think he should still have had a second chance, 10m in. But that's a tough call ..
    3 - yes he gets another minute to take the kick
    4 - I'd actually stop the watch for the rekick. The charge was stupid error, it doesn't seem fair to either team to lose a minute's playing time because of it.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    Don’t go making things up and reading offences into things. For me the Ref handles it right.

    21.5(c)
    If the kicker indicates to the referee the intent to kick at goal, the opposing team must stand still with their hands by their sides from the time the kicker starts to approach to kick until the ball is kicked.

    There is no associated PK with this infringement and at (e) “A further penalty is not awarded in respect of the infringement”.

    There is no basis (or sense) in moving on an extra 10m and no grounds to stop the clock either.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    you have misquoted 21.5(e) which says


    (e) If the opposing team infringes while the kick is being taken but the kick at goal is successful, the goal stands. A further penalty is not awarded for the infringement
    In this case he missed.

    So we go to 21.7
    Sanction: Any infringement by the opposing team results in a second penalty kick, 10 metres in front of the mark for the first kick. This mark must not be within 5 metres of the goal line. Any player may take the kick. The kicker may change the type of kick and may choose to kick at goal. If the referee awards a second penalty kick, the second penalty kick is not taken before the referee has made the mark indicating the place of the penalty



    As to whether the watch stops. I don't think the Law covers it, so I think the ref can make a judgement.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Smartie View Post
    Don’t go making things up and reading offences into things. For me the Ref handles it right.

    21.5(c)
    If the kicker indicates to the referee the intent to kick at goal, the opposing team must stand still with their hands by their sides from the time the kicker starts to approach to kick until the ball is kicked.

    There is no associated PK with this infringement and at (e) “A further penalty is not awarded in respect of the infringement”.

    There is no basis (or sense) in moving on an extra 10m and no grounds to stop the clock either.
    Are you seriously suggesting that the opposition can charge a PK and there is no sanction?

    21.5(e) only applies if the kick is successful.

    If it's not.

    21.7 WHAT THE OPPOSING TEAM MUST DO AT A PENALTY KICK

    Sanction: Any infringement by the opposing team results in a second penalty kick, 10
    metres in front of the mark for the first kick. This mark must not be within 5 metres of the
    goal line. Any player may take the kick. The kicker may change the type of kick and may
    choose to kick at goal. If the referee awards a second penalty kick, the second penalty kick is
    not taken before the referee has made the mark indicating the place of the penalty.


    EDIT: Snap!

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    At my level, If I felt it to be a genuine brainfart, I would just restart the time and let the kick be retaken from the original spot. If I thought it was a deliberate action then 10 metres and a possible card.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    At my level, If I felt it to be a genuine brainfart, I would just restart the time and let the kick be retaken from the original spot. If I thought it was a deliberate action then 10 metres and a possible card.
    I don't quite get what you mean on time .. you would give the kicker another minute , but would you stop your watch for that ?

    In case it makes any difference the ref told both captains when he awarded the PK that there was less than three minutes to go , when the foolish charge happened there was about two minutes to go , so whether the watch stopped or not was quite important .. and transparent.

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