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Thread: Mistaken Charge at PK

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    The kicking team were entitled to an extra 10m
    It was very material that they didn't get it that 10m as with that they would almost certainly have got the kick and three points. (there was two minutes to go only two points in it , so the kick was highly material)

    Stopping or not stopping the watch is also highly material . Its the difference between restarting with 2 mins to go or 1 min to go , in a very close game

    So its Def material , which is part of why I posted it

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    No. Well not for me. Is the OFFENCE material not is the PUNISHMENT material. If you applied the latter as the bench mark you would have to say (almst) every offence is material.

    Eg Scum 10 meters from your own line Opposition Blind side Flanker breaks his bind but the ball clearly going open. Not paterial so play on and havr a word. WAIT, hang on, With a PK to touch and the throw we could be on half way so it is material. You can't have material effect in that world.

    Even time might be or might not be material depending on the score. etc.

    You take all these factors in to consideration together with previous offences / tone of the game and your reading of the "stupidity of the player" when you decide homw to manage the situation.

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    All good points

    But in that vein we might say that mistkenly charging any old PK is not normally anything to make much of a fuss about , but doing it when there is two points in it, two mins to go, and 30m out is quite different and much more material

    And let's face it the kicker started a run up, was disrupted, had to start again .. and missed
    Arguably the unpunished offence gained them 3 critical point s

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    This is an interesting one and useful to go through the scenario before encountering it. Thanks for posing the challenge CR.

    I do tend to agree with the sentiments of MW..

    If there is no authority in law to add on an extra minute to time, which I think has been demonstrated and agreed, then I think that this could be managed by: blowing the whistle; stopping the clock; telling the kicker to reset and to take his time to compose himself; walking over to the defending team and having a polite word (with a smile on your face, appreciating the innocence of the mistake); walking back to the kicker and asking if he is ready to proceed; restarting the clock; and giving the kicker the full minute to complete the kick.
    This would result in the game being stopped for 60 seconds or so, giving time for the the kicker to regain his composure, and allowing the laughter to die down.

    If it was a clearly a deliberate time wasting ploy by the resident ar5ehole then blow, yellow card for cynical play and march forward 10m.

    Isn’t part of the role about applying the laws with empathy for the spirit of the game and the abilty/experience/attitude of the players?

    Perhaps in a senior cup final with 3 mins to go and defending team leading by 4 then you could march forward 10.
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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    yes.

    I don't think there is a single right answer - but I think it was an interesting scenario.

    The real benefit of giving them 10m straightaway is that it closes off the matter.
    Action - they charged wrongly
    Consequence - in line with the Law - - kick got 10m closer.

    Now it's all done with and it doesn't matter whether the kick goes over or misses.

    In the incident I witnessed I was left with the feeling that the team with the kick had suffered an injustice
    - he lined up for the kick
    - got seriously disrupted
    - had to take it again
    - (if the watch is running, now with increased time pressure on him as the watch is approaching 80 min and game time is running out)
    - and he misses.

    I think he might well feel - WTF happened there then?

    If had been given 10m I think it would have all felt better.

    Whether to stop watch or not - I agree that's a trickier question,
    Last edited by crossref; 09-02-18 at 14:02.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
    If there is no authority in law to add on an extra minute to time,
    You cant have it both ways.

    You say there is no law to cover time off so you can't do it.

    But then you ignore the law that says if the defending team interfere (which they did) then another kick 10m forwards is awarded.

    Either you are going by the law or your not, you can't pick and choose.

    If this is a league game then the difference in points could mean the difference between relegation or promotion at the end of the season.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    Indeed Phil E, you can't make it up but you can use empathy (depending on level etc). Regarding time, the referee is sole judge (certainly where I am) so it is not an issue. If you the ref decide there is time then time there is.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Indeed Phil E, you can't make it up but you can use empathy (depending on level etc). Regarding time, the referee is sole judge (certainly where I am) so it is not an issue. If you the ref decide there is time then time there is.
    yes, but my question wasn't CAN you stop the watch in that scenario (yes, you can) my question was SHOULD you..

    and in the context that
    - the minute or so involved was very material
    - it was also very transparent, as both teams were acutely aware of time left, and the ref had told them how much when the PK was awarded - so they would know what you decide. No fudging really.
    Last edited by crossref; 09-02-18 at 15:02.

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    So you employ context as previously indicated.

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Mistaken Charge at PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    You cant have it both ways.

    You say there is no law to cover time off so you can't do it.

    But then you ignore the law that says if the defending team interfere (which they did) then another kick 10m forwards is awarded.

    Either you are going by the law or your not, you can't pick and choose.

    If this is a league game then the difference in points could mean the difference between relegation or promotion at the end of the season.
    It is perfectly reasonable and within LotG to stop the clock in order to speak with players about their conduct. If this has the effect of allowing the kicker to regain their composure then that is a benefit. I was not suggesting adding on extra time just stopping the clock to reset the kick. We often see this at the top level when scrums are reset, the clock is stopped whilst the ref allows time to clean studs, speak to the front row allow everyone to settle down, then restarts the clock before the CTE. I was not suggesting anything different.
    Last edited by Jolly Roger; 09-02-18 at 15:02.
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