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Thread: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Crotch bind is not a legal bind for a No 8.

    Binding is in the definitions and states...

    Binding: Grasping another player’s body firmly between the shoulders and the hips with the
    whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.


    So a crotch bind isn't actually a bind under law. Law states bind with at least on arm, so a double crotch bind would be illegal.




    "You need to bind with at least one arm on a locks body, double crotch bind is illegal, don't let me see you do it again please."
    If he does it's an easy PK with a "I did warn you".
    Following this logic, then the Lock to Prop "bind" cannot be of the crotch variety either?

  2. #12

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    Then locks are binding illegally and the standard #8 bind doesn't meet the criteria, either.
    No they aren't RTFM

    They are binding to each other with at least one arm.

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  3. #13

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    No they aren't RTFM

    They are binding to each other with at least one arm.
    I did read the 'F' Laws.

    19.7.c (2018)

    The locks BIND with props in front of them and each other.

  4. #14
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    OK, let's examine the binding definition:

    Binding: Grasping another player’s body firmly between the shoulders and the hips with the whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.


    There are two parts. First part is "grasping" which requires the hand to be placed between the shoulders and hips.

    Then there is the requirement for the arm to be in contact. In contact with what? With the teammate, not required to be "between the shoulders and hips".

    I'll see your pedant and raise you a lawyer.

  5. #15

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Crotch bind is not a legal bind for a No 8.

    Binding is in the definitions and states...

    Binding: Grasping another player’s body firmly between the shoulders and the hips with the
    whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.


    "You need to bind with at least one arm on a locks body, double crotch bind is illegal, don't let me see you do it again please."
    If he does it's an easy PK with a "I did warn you".
    But then neither is the standard #8 bind fitting that bill either - it typically goes around the buttocks and grips around the waistline or upper leg



    didds

  6. #16

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    I did read the 'F' Laws..
    I wasn't replying to you, that why I quoted ChrisR

    I take your point about locks to prop not being technically a bind, but it's really simple.

    Locks bind to each other and to a prop, the crotch bind by locks has been around since forever (except at junior level).

    No 8 crotch bind is not normal practise, if it becomes normal practise (especially a double crotch bind) I guarantee it will be "clarified" as illegal. I have in the back of my mind that it used to be listed as illegal (OB may know).

    So we tell him not to do it and he stops. No one will argue, no one will find it strange.

    As an example of what's not said there was a clarification in 2002 that said "Locks in the scrum must have their heads between the hips of the hooker and the prop forward". Now there was never anything in law to state this, but it was obviously wrong and WR said so.

    You can now both carry on discussing it, but without me, I will just get on with refereeing to obvious and expected levels.

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


  7. #17

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Crotch bind is not a legal bind for a No 8.

    Binding is in the definitions and states...

    Binding: Grasping another player’s body firmly between the shoulders and the hips with the
    whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.


    So a crotch bind isn't actually a bind under law. Law states bind with at least on arm, so a double crotch bind would be illegal.




    "You need to bind with at least one arm on a locks body, double crotch bind is illegal, don't let me see you do it again please."
    If he does it's an easy PK with a "I did warn you".
    My crotch is definitely between my shoulders and my hips. I’ve just checked!
    Last edited by Balones; 15-02-18 at 17:02.

  8. #18

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post

    You can now both carry on discussing it, but without me, I will just get on with refereeing to obvious and expected levels.
    I don't think it's at all obvious that a crotch bind by the #8 is illegal.

    I'd ignore it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    My crotch is definitely between my shouldes and my hips. I’ve just checked!
    if there's no photo, it didn't happen

  9. #19

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    I take your point about locks to prop not being technically a bind
    but it doesn't have to be, because

    d. All other players in the scrum bind on a lock’s body with at least one arm.
    each lock binds on the other thus fulfilling the laws requirements.

    what they do with the other one is up to them, there are no laws requirements in the standard full set of laws.

    didds

  10. #20

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    Default Re: England Vs Georgia scrum training session

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    My crotch is definitely between my shoulders and my hips. I’ve just checked!
    your crotch is in a funny place then!

    my crotch is at the same level as the top part of my thigh. My hip is above that. i can tell that cos my hip replacement operation scar is above it!

    and when my replacement hip twinges and creaks it does so well above the level of my perineum

    didds

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