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Thread: uncontested maul restart

      
  1. #51
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    You cannot pass the ball back before the maul is formed by an opponent binding on.
    . . . and if you do and the ops stand off? What then?

  2. #52
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    If the mob move forward I am going Peep Accidental Offside.
    If the defenders move forward and bind (try to push through) then I am going Play On as they have chosen to engage.
    The ball is at the back, the lineout has ended and the ops engage. Are you calling this a maul? In reading 2018 definitions and maul law you may be right as:

    Maul: A phase of play consisting of a ball-carrier and at least one player from each team, bound together and on their feet.

    However, under 2017 law we find Law 17 Maul this:

    A maul begins when a player carrying the ball is held by one or more opponents, and one or more of the ball carrier’s team mates bind on the ball carrier.

    In our scenario the "Maul begins . . ." doesn't happen as the defenders can't reach the BC unless they run around the mob to get to him.

    I think that "accidental offsides" is a better call than "play on".

  3. #53

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post

    I think that "accidental offsides" is a better call than "play on".
    I agree. If the ball is at the back before the opposition has engaged, that is obstruction and not a maul.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  4. #54

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    would you permit a defender top run around the back to tackle the BC if they do not move forward CR?

    didds
    No.

    The ball has not left the LoT (Line out) and so the off-side lines are still in place.

    If the ball is at the back you need to direct the team in possession to "Use it!". If they fail so to do within the requisite 5 seconds then scrum, turnover ball - on the first occasion.

    Likewise if the ball is at the back and the team start to rumble forward you need to shout "Use it!", if they so fail then - for the first offence - it is scrum turnover. Next time full PK for the offside.

    Not sure why we are asking this now since it has been part of Law Clarification now for a couple of years. I got a load of video clips detailing legal and illegal practice at the time from the ARU.
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  5. #55

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post

    Not sure why we are asking this now since it has been part of Law Clarification now for a couple of years. I got a load of video clips detailing legal and illegal practice at the time from the ARU.
    I can't find that Clarification. Can you cite it please?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  6. #56

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I can't find that Clarification. Can you cite it please?
    Hi Dickie E

    Try looking here:
    http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=9&guideline=9

    If you PM me your e-mail I can send you all the stuff that one of your colleagues sent to me.
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  7. #57
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    No. The ball has not left the LoT (Line out) and so the off-side lines are still in place.
    The WR law clarification you referenced in your post #56 addresses actions after a maul has formed so it doesn't apply to the situation here where the ball has been passed back before the ops engage.

    Under 2018 lineout law the lineout ends when "The ball or a player in possession of the ball leaves the lineout".

    So the question is: Has the ball, by moving back from the mark (line of touch), left the lineout?
    WR has determined that players stepping back from the mark (so as not to engage and form a maul) have left the lineout and are liable for sanction. Shouldn't we apply the same criteria for the ball?

  8. #58

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    The WR law clarification you referenced in your post #56 addresses actions after a maul has formed so it doesn't apply to the situation here where the ball has been passed back before the ops engage.

    Under 2018 lineout law the lineout ends when "The ball or a player in possession of the ball leaves the lineout".

    So the question is: Has the ball, by moving back from the mark (line of touch), left the lineout?
    WR has determined that players stepping back from the mark (so as not to engage and form a maul) have left the lineout and are liable for sanction. Shouldn't we apply the same criteria for the ball?
    Do you allow all the backs to come forward?
    NO.
    So the lineout hasn't ended.

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  9. #59
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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Do you allow all the backs to come forward?
    NO.
    So the lineout hasn't ended.
    Set the criteria for the lineout ending first. If it has then the backs can come up.

    I think the simple approach is this: Require that the ball be kept at the front until the ops engage. This allows the ball to move forward without penalty and keeps the lineout intact until the ball moves off the LoT.

  10. #60

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    We are just dancing around the points I laid out in #41 . The guidance we have all been given on how to manage this is not supported by Law ...

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