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Thread: uncontested maul restart

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    I wish we had RFU Game Management Guidelines that documented this sort of stuff each season

    (Yes I know an email once went out)

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    No, because the lineout isn't over, so they can't leave the lineout .

    Call use it because until they use it all 30 players are stuck ..
    IMO handing the ball back in the event of a non maul should effectively bring the LO to an end. But if the RFU guidance is there.....

    A smart player will look to ensure he draws an infringement.
    Last edited by ChuckieB; 06-03-18 at 12:03.

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    IMO handing the ball back in the event of a non maul should effectively bring the LO to an end.
    I agree with this - and I think there was a thread on it a couple of years ago. Ball transferred without a maul being formed = lineout over.

    I don't recall the guidelines referring to players coming round - just that it should only be an accidental offside if they make contact with the defending team and if they don't use it immediately it's a turn over.

  4. #14

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    IMO handing the ball back in the event of a non maul should effectively bring the LO to an end. But if the RFU guidance is there.....

    A smart player will look to ensure he draws an infringement.
    If the opposition all dropped back you would penalise them for leaving the line out early; so by the same token they can't move forward across the line of touch.

    36. The lineout ends when:
    a. The ball or a player in possession of the ball:
    i. leaves the lineout; or
    ii. enters the area between the touchline and the five-metre line; or
    iii. goes beyond the 15-metre line.
    b. A ruck or maul forms and all of the feet of all of the players in the ruck or maul
    move beyond the mark of touch.
    c. The ball becomes unplayable.

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    If the opposition all dropped back you would penalise them for leaving the line out early; so by the same token they can't move forward across the line of touch.

    36. The lineout ends when:
    a. The ball or a player in possession of the ball:
    i. leaves the lineout; or
    ii. enters the area between the touchline and the five-metre line; or
    iii. goes beyond the 15-metre line.
    b. A ruck or maul forms and all of the feet of all of the players in the ruck or maul
    move beyond the mark of touch.
    c. The ball becomes unplayable.
    If the ball is moved to the back player in the "quasi-maul" then hasn't it left the lineout? It has certainly moved away from the LOT, probably by more than 1m, so the lineout is over. It can't be option b because there is no maul?

  6. #16

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    wrt leaving the lineout, AIUI as long as the "maul" hasn;t left the LOT then the ball hasn't.

    Admittedly this is my understanding with REAL mauls :-)

    didds

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    If the opposition all dropped back you would penalise them for leaving the line out early; so by the same token they can't move forward across the line of touch.

    36. The lineout ends when:
    a. The ball or a player in possession of the ball:
    i. leaves the lineout; or
    ii. enters the area between the touchline and the five-metre line; or
    iii. goes beyond the 15-metre line.
    b. A ruck or maul forms and all of the feet of all of the players in the ruck or maul
    move beyond the mark of touch.
    c. The ball becomes unplayable.
    I hadn't actually noticed the new wording, but before the re-write the lineout was over when the catcher passed the ball to a team mate (I guess this is covered under "leaves the lineout"). I'm sure I remember a discussion when it was decided that transferring the ball to a team mate should fall under "passing"

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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    In fact, in the new lawbook, has the lineout ended when the ball has gone to the receiver? The receiver is a participant in the lineout so surely the ball hasn't left the lineout until it's left his hands.

    N.B. I'm not saying this is what's intended, or how the game should be refereed.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    If the opposition all dropped back you would penalise them for leaving the line out early; so by the same token they can't move forward across the line of touch.

    36. The lineout ends when:
    a. The ball or a player in possession of the ball:
    i. leaves the lineout; or
    ii. enters the area between the touchline and the five-metre line; or
    iii. goes beyond the 15-metre line.
    b. A ruck or maul forms and all of the feet of all of the players in the ruck or maul
    move beyond the mark of touch.
    c. The ball becomes unplayable.
    Law 31.

    • Until the ball is thrown in, and has touched the player or the ground, the offside line for lineout players is the mark of touch. After that, their offside line is a line through the ball.

    in the absence of a maul or ruck, which is specially catered for, a defending line out player can advance towards the ball carrier at the back of the formation and if he can't get at him it surely draws the infringement if it has not done so already with the AO.

    RFU guidance suggests it AO. I am more inclined to suggest that the spirit of the laws demand that the attacking side do not try and contrive a maul situation. It would potentially keep them on their toes as regards what some see as the tedious predictability of the catch and drive scenario. If you're not sure that the opposition are going to play your game then perhaps you need to think more creatively.

    That will require you to be dynamic and require you to play the situation in front of you at any given point.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: uncontested maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    The opposition cannot come round and tackle the ball carrier at the back because the ball hasn't left the lineout, so the would be tackler is offside.
    2018 Laws:

    Law 18, Offside at a lineout

    31. Until the ball is thrown in, and has touched the player or the ground, the offside line for lineout players is the mark of touch. After that, their offside line is a line through the ball.

    2917 Laws:

    Law 19.14 Offside when taking part in the lineout

    (c) After the ball has touched a player or the ground. A player not carrying the ball is offside if , after the ball has touched a player or the ground , that player steps in front of the ball ,
    unless tackling (or trying to tackle) an opponent. Any attempt to tackle must start from that player’s side of the ball.
    Sanction: Penalty kick on the 15-metre line


    Whether the would be tackler of the tail-gunner is off-side depends on how you interpret the parts in red.

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