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Thread: clarification please

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: clarification please

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Well, we established in a recent thread that following an knock on, adv is over when they kick it !
    not if kick is kicked under pressure ..
    the referee can conclude no advantage got , there fore we go back for infringement sanction .

  2. #12

    Referees in England


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    Default Re: clarification please

    Agreed .. so let's say it's a kick not under pressure

  3. #13

    Advises in England
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    Default Re: clarification please

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    It was never so that a knock on into the in goal by the attacking side was a 22m drop out?
    Until about 40 years ago, a knock-on into in-goal was a 22 drop out, whereas an attacking knock-on inside in-goal was a 5 metre scrum. This was seen as an anomaly, so the law was changed. The outcome from a knock-on can never be a drop out.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #14

    Referees in England


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    Default Re: clarification please

    OB
    Are you sure about that because when I asked you about that a while ago you told me


    In 1977 the law said that a scrum offence in the In-goal would lead to a drop out. This was not changed in 1978.
    Last edited by crossref; 13-03-18 at 16:03.

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    Default Re: clarification please

    I know we do not normally play advantage, but a side getting mullered in the scrum, might want it.
    Generally we do not call advantage over if the non-offending side has the ball behind where the mark for the knock on would be made.
    So if the defenders chose to play on, when would you call advantage over before they cross the 5m line.

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    Default Re: clarification please

    Quote Originally Posted by Camquin View Post
    So if the defenders chose to play on, when would you call advantage over before they cross the 5m line.
    One answer would be : when they freely make a clean kick (under no particular pressure yada yada)

  7. #17
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: clarification please

    What if the attacking team knocks-on in/into the defenders goal, the defenders pick up the ball and make three passes to the wide side, the referee call "advantage over!" and the defenders ground the ball.
    Now you have a 22DO following a KO into goal.

    This argument will not die because there are people like myself (and crossref) who see the fallacy in how the laws are being applied. We have agreed to referee to the rule of the majority (at least, I have) but there are flaws in the logic and the 'old guard' simply don't want to hear it.
    Last edited by ChrisR; 13-03-18 at 21:03.

  8. #18

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    Default Re: clarification please

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    What if the attacking team knocks-on in/into the defenders goal, the defenders pick up the ball and make three passes to the wide side, the referee call "advantage over!" and the defenders ground the ball.
    Now you have a 22DO following a KO into goal.

    This argument will not die because there are people like myself (and crossref) who see the fallacy in how the laws are being applied. We have agreed to referee to the rule of the majority (at least, I have) but there are flaws in the logic and the 'old guard' simply don't want to hear it.
    Im not sure how you could think that a knock on in goal and the ball has not cleared in goal (past the gain line) even after 3 passes is 'advantage over'?!! Youd be the only one...or two.
    What if in the third pass after you call advantage over the defender drops it and attacker grounds it? Would you seriously say that the defenders gained an advantage either tactical or territorial and award the try!!

    I can see what you're trying to say...but I think there are far too many variables for the refereee to assess at that time to determine and hope when advantage was really gained to then allow a 22 do....just neater and a time saver to just play the scrum and get on with the game and it can be applied consistently for all referees. Advantage is to be real and material...not to be played hoping it might accrue.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  9. #19
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: clarification please

    Menace, my post is just making a point of how the current practice is turning the law on it's collective head.

    Do we agree that a 22DO is of greater advantage to the defenders than a defending 5m scrum? If we don't then we don't have much to discuss.

    In the situation where the defenders pick up the attackers KO and continue play in their own goal. If they ground the ball before the referee calls "Advantage over" then they can't gain the 22DO advantage (under current practice) but if the referee calls "Advantage over" and the ground the ball then they get the 22DO.

    Doesn't that strike you as back asswards? It does me.

  10. #20
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: clarification please

    So until the ball is out of in-goal (and probably past the 5m line), you don't call advantage over. If they're under pressure in their own in-goal that shouldn't take too long.

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