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Thread: Trouble at Los Millos

      
  1. #141

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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    "24 breaches of regulations" probably refer to the same c 7 (minimum 5) players. Not the same as 24 players being ineligible.

    In lower Rugby Europe leagues each Team Manager shows (used to 10 years ago) each player's passport / residency /family qualification documentation to the Match Commissioner. That is returned to Rugby Europe as a record of who played. Of course that does not prove a negative due to a player having been captured by another nation.

    Note also that "information relating to player eligibility ... has been presented by the participating unions" i.e. unions have protested about other's eligibility I assume, not that they have held up their own failings. Honour among thieves only lasted so long.

    Unions will be much more careful about asking the right questions of potential players from now on.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    The Belgian players had passports - but only though great-grandparents. Five players were involved.

    The Spanish were playing lawyers - claiming that because you had to nominate every four years, you could not change more frequently.
    The French nominated their U21 side - and then that was abolished and replaced by the U20 side and that became the second side.
    Two players were captured that way.

    However, the IRB do list the second side on the web site.

    Romania simply forgot to ask about 7s.

    Frankly is Romsey made that sort of error, they would expect a points deduction.

  3. #143

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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    OB...World Rugby themselves said that the circumstances surrounding the appointment meant that a replay WAS justified (which I think was unprecedented)
    From the report
    19. [...]
    the Panel is of the view that it possesses the power to order a replay.

    Result of the match stands
    20. However even if the Panel does have jurisdiction to order a replay of the match, the issue of whether a replay should be ordered still needs to be determined.[...]

    25. The principle that “the referee’s position as sole judge of fact and law during the match is unassailable” is a core principle of rugby, as is the very limited jurisdiction of a Disciplinary Committee to overturn the decisions of referees made on the pitch after the game. We accept that if corruption or the bad faith of a referee is proved then the Panel would exercise the jurisdiction that it has (as explained above) to overturn the result of the game. However, the invitation to overturn a result because of the “appearance of bias” or because of the unsatisfactory way that Rugby Europe dealt with the proper request made by Spain to remove the match officials, is in our judgment not sufficient. This is because much more is required to set aside the decisions of the referee after the event, or to order a replay.
    The report also deals with World Rugby's earlier comments about ordering a replay.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    Since you are keen on pointing out bits and pieces of the report maybe you can help me out: Who from Rugby Europe is being sanctioned/punished/penalized and in what way? I mean, after all, all this mess was not only triggered by them but they also had every tool imaginable to prevent this from happening at virtually zero cost for every single party involved.

    I am sure the answer will be as satisfactory as every answer the report provides.

  5. #145

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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    Quote Originally Posted by Camquin View Post

    Frankly is Romsey made that sort of error, they would expect a points deduction.
    We lost points several years ago simply because in a mix of injuries etc we picked a normally 2nd XV player in the 1sts - and he;d never ever actually filled in a registration form cos as a 3rd/2nd XV player he'd never had to and nobody realised. This at level 7. It wasn;t the underlying reason why we went down. but it did enough to ensure it.

    Geese and ganders...

    didds

    didds

  6. #146

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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    I don't believe that all the transgressions in the report suddenly came to light in the aftermath of that game. I suspect lots of people knew about them , including Rugby Europe , who were turning a blind eye , as the fall out of dealing witj it was too high

  7. #147

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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    Quote Originally Posted by Cross View Post
    Since you are keen on pointing out bits and pieces of the report maybe you can help me out:
    Certainly. See paragraphs 24-27 of the report.
    Who from Rugby Europe is being sanctioned/punished/penalized and in what way? I mean, after all, all this mess was not only triggered by them but they also had every tool imaginable to prevent this from happening at virtually zero cost for every single party involved.
    Having read those paragraphs you will realise that there was no actual disciplinary offence in the appointment, however ill-advised it undoubtedly was. It is interesting to note that the same referee had officiated in the previous qualifying match match between the two sides.

    I am sure the answer will be as satisfactory as every answer the report provides.
    Sarchasm.

    It would be nice to think that WorldRugby has had some pretty strong words with Rugby Europe, but that was not the function of this hearing.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Certainly. See paragraphs 24-27 of the report.
    Having read those paragraphs you will realise that there was no actual disciplinary offence in the appointment, however ill-advised it undoubtedly was. It is interesting to note that the same referee had officiated in the previous qualifying match match between the two sides.
    The last sentence from the above quote shows you still do not grasp the conflict of interest. The conflict was circumstantial given the position of the Spain and Romania in the table, the stakes of the game and the remaining games to be played (none).

    And regarding the lack of disciplinary offense is precisely the problem. Those who created the problem are telling themselves that everything is alright.

    And you telling me "sarchasm"....ha, should be next to merriam webster's definition of "irony".

  9. #149

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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    Quote Originally Posted by Cross View Post
    The last sentence from the above quote shows you still do not grasp the conflict of interest. The conflict was circumstantial given the position of the Spain and Romania in the table, the stakes of the game and the remaining games to be played (none).
    It was an interesting sidelight in that after the first match nobody suggested the referee was substandard. I entirely agree that in the second match everybody knew what was riding on it.

    And regarding the lack of disciplinary offense is precisely the problem. Those who created the problem are telling themselves that everything is alright.
    Do you think that after all the hullabaloo they would risk doing the same again? Do we know if WorldRugby have made their displeasure known in some way? Do we even know whether or not the referee was in fact the most highly qualified one available to Rugby Europe? Just what sort of disciplinary action are you advocating, and who should suffer? The report says the referee was "poor", but apparently that did not amount to bias against Spain.

    I understand where the anger comes from, but that alone is not sufficient.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  10. #150

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    Default Re: Trouble at Los Millos

    He is an experienced referee , the accusation wasn't competence but bias

    Did ER have other refs available? Yes many, it was an international weekend with many other games under RE controls they could easily have swapped refs around. There were two English Premiership refs working for RE that weekend , I read

    Why was he not swapped out ......

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