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Thread: Help with this law ?

      
  1. #21
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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    Anything not reaching five metres for all reasons other than the exception of the qti prevented by the opposition ( because the law says it) is for, me an incorrect throw in.

    a qti throwing to himself and short 5m is an incorrect throw in.
    a ball being played by any player in a lineout before it reaches 5 metres is an incorrect throw in. If it is thrown in short and played by the opposition dliebrate or not, it is an incorrect throw in. It means the team throwing should have worked harder to throw the ball in 5 metres, likely that they were going for the short one and left themselves open to getting it wrong.

    So different to Chris R but, rightly or wrongly, more technically in tune with what is actually written in the laws imo. When formulated I don't ever suppose they much thought about the throw short to the front man, preferring a text book jump and compete for the ball in the air.

    like a text book rucking situation, where the law no longer reflects what actually happens in the real world
    Last edited by ChuckieB; 31-03-18 at 12:03.

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    I think we're making this harder than it needs to be. Ignore the actual wording for a minute for both QTI and lineout and consider this:

    Throwing team mucks it up. Ie. ball thrown short or teammate of thrower prevents ball going 5m. Sanction: Turnover with choice of scrum or lineout.

    Opponent stops ball going 5m. Sanction FK.
    that's another interpretation -- and one that I have heard before.
    it seems unfair on the non-throwing team.

    red throw in -
    - if blue #1 oversteps the 5m line he gives away a FK (which can be taken as a lineout or a scrum)
    - if red #1 oversteps the 5m line he gives away a scrum/lineout option

    I don't see why we would be harsher on blue than on red -- for the same offence

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Different circumstances, therefore different tactical situations.
    so this drove me back to the Law Book to check what exactly it says for a QTI, compared to a lineout.

    and it exposes [yet another] difference between the 2017 and 2018 Law Books (groan)

    Scenario - ball is thrown in, and a player catches it 4m out

    2017 The Laws for QTI and Lineout are the same - ie ambiguous in both cases

    QTI --
    19.2(e) says it's an incorrect throw, and scrum awarded the non-throwing team
    19.2(h) says it's blocking the throw, and FK to awarded to the non-blocking team

    Lineout
    19.6 & 19.7 together say it's an incorrect throw, and scrum/lineout option awarded to the non-throwing team
    19.10(h) says it's blocking a throw and a FK to awarded to the non-blocking team

    2018 The Laws for QTI and Lineout are different (sigh) the ambiguity remains for a QTI, but in lineout its different

    QTI --
    18.4 says it's an incorrect throw, and scrum awarded the non-throwing team
    18.6 says it's blocking the throw, and FK to awarded to the non-blocking team

    Lineout
    18.23(b) says it's an incorrect throw, and scrum/lineout option awarded the non-throwing team
    There is no longer an offence of blocking the throw



    So where does that leave us?
    I imagine the omission is accidental.
    I am leaning to the view that the new Law Book really is a pile of pants!
    Last edited by crossref; 31-03-18 at 12:03.

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    Anything not reaching five metres for all reasons other than the exception of the qti prevented by the opposition ( because the law says it) is for, me an incorrect throw in

    dont entirely agree chuck ..its not the throwers incorrect throw in ,,if an opposition player in line out or team mate player in line out , reaches into channel or steps into channel to play the ball.
    you cant say the thrower threw in ball incorrectly for either of these scenarios .


    a qti throwing to himself and short 5m is an incorrect throw in.
    ..yes agree ,,scrum or line out opposition

    a ball being played by any player in a lineout before it reaches 5 metres is an incorrect throw in .....dont agree ,,its not the throwers fault ,,its actually the catchers fault for not letting ball travel full distance

    . If it is thrown in short and played by the opposition dliebrate or not, it is an incorrect throw in
    the only time we are likely to see a ball not reaching 5 meters i agree would be from a quick throw wherethe thrower might throw 10 meters towards his own try line , but unfortunately its not gone infield the required 5 meters ( unless thrower has some kind of muscle spasm in his arms , we will never have a situation where thrower wont get the ball to travel 5 meters in a normal line out )

    It means the team throwing should have worked harder to throw the ball in 5 metres, likely that they were going for the short one and left themselves open to getting it wrong
    for me , its usually his line out team mate reaching into channel to soon who makes a mess of this in a full line out situation ..

    So different to Chris R but, rightly or wrongly, more technically in tune with what is actually written in the laws imo. When formulated I don't ever suppose they much thought about the throw short to the front man, preferring a text book jump and compete for the ball in the air.
    for me , this is where law sanction is a fair sanction .
    Player reaches in & catches ball , before ball travels 5 is scrum turn over only ( or line out )
    ...but if opposition player or team mate players steps into channel or started in channel ,,they now have a massive advantage of being able to meet ball sooner ,,,,there for the sanction is harsher as in free kick .


    like a text book rucking situation, where the law no longer reflects what actually happens in the real world
    .................

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post
    a ball being played by any player in a lineout before it reaches 5 metres is an incorrect throw in. If it is thrown in short and played by the opposition dliebrate or not, it is an incorrect throw in. It means the team throwing should have worked harder to throw the ball in 5 metres, likely that they were going for the short one and left themselves open to getting it wrong.
    This does't make any sense. You're saying that an attempt to throw to the first lineout player gets blocked short by an opponent who jumps in front is the throwers fault coz he should have tried harder?

    I don't think so.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    For me, change the word "and" in #6 to "so"... then it seems to make sense. If it doesn't go 5 because of a cock up, its a scrum, if it doesn't go 5 because someone played it, its a free kick.

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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    For me if someone plays the ball inside the 5m line I give a FK

  8. #28

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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    Reminds me of the day at ivel barbarians when we, throwing, were FKd for the ball not travelling 5m .. because the oppo #1 caught it before it reached the 5m line.

    Yes. You read that correctly.

    Didds

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckieB View Post

    a qti throwing to himself and short 5m is an incorrect throw in.
    a ball being played by any player in a lineout before it reaches 5 metres is an incorrect throw in. If it is thrown in short and played by the opposition dliebrate or not, it is an incorrect throw in. It means the team throwing should have worked harder to throw the ball in 5 metres, likely that they were going for the short one and left themselves open to getting it wrong.

    Total nonsense. How can you be penslised because of what the other side does? Sorry can't put it more politely.

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Help with this law ?

    That's exactly what happened to us Marc! (See above)

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