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Thread: Jackling - valid or too late?

      
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    Default Jackling - valid or too late?

    From my game on Sat, White had a flanker who was a good jackler and frequently quick and well positioned but wasn't quite hitting the mark for me. I'd like to work out if I was being harsh. In short, he sets himself up to jackle, gets hand to ball (ON ball, but not yet a grip, if that makes sense), but simultaneous/fractionally after this the ruck forms as oppo support arrives and engages him. He's strong and doesn't get driven off, but doesn't pick up the ball. I don't see the BC holding on to the ball or disrupting him. In short White just hasn't got a good enough purchase on the ball to pick it up in the engagement. But is still hands on and trying to get that purchase. I pinged for hands in ruck (several times). Chat in bar after being he didn't understand what I was looking for. Answer - a cleaner pick up. Fair or harsh?

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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    he must have been very strong. I don't think I've ever seen a player without a good grasp on the ball (or a good grasp on something) be able to survive a cleanout.

    Based on the OP, I expect I would have allowed him to continue to play for the ball as long as he kept in contact.
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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    he must have been very strong. I don't think I've ever seen a player without a good grasp on the ball (or a good grasp on something) be able to survive a cleanout.

    Based on the OP, I expect I would have allowed him to continue to play for the ball as long as he kept in contact.
    I think there is a middle ground - the oft maligned "manage it". If the jackler is not clearly clamped on the ball or has not already won it, then you can tell him to release; I would try not to penalise him - a clear shout of "white, 7, release" should be enough - as it is not a clear cut penalty unless he keeps slowing it down with hands after you've told him to leave it.

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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    The advice I got at the beginning of this season was that the jackler has to get the ball off the ground before defenders can form a ruck - if he has a good grip and the BC isn't holding on then the act of closing should lift the ball and the turnover is good.

    If I've pinged someone twice for the same thing, I usually have a word with them in the game - they often aren't aware of some law nuance or are mistaken, and in a case like this it's a good way to explain what you're looking for.

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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    If he was there first and making a positive effort to win the ball - which by your description, he was - I would have allowed him leeway to secure it.

    He beat the defender and, as you say, was supporting his weight.

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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    For me the jackler does not have to lift the ball - if he does it is often a turnover, but if he does not (and I don't think he has to let go) then assuming the original ball carrier is not holding on then it is a failed ruck with scrum to side going forward, probably not the jackler's side, but I would not be penalising him if he had hands on before the ruck and stayed on his feet.

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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    This happened a couple of times in my game this weekend as well. Jackler with a hand on the ball, supporting own body weight, but not in a position to lift the ball, only pin it against the tackled player. Bit of a stalemate cured by either blowing for unplayable in the ruck or calling for jackler to release. Only if I'd called for a release and they ignored me would I penalise, but it doesn't look of feel right to have the ball effectively pinned and not going anywhere even though the jackler is technically still legally competing.

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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    This happened a couple of times in my game this weekend as well. Jackler with a hand on the ball, supporting own body weight, but not in a position to lift the ball, only pin it against the tackled player. Bit of a stalemate cured by either blowing for unplayable in the ruck or calling for jackler to release. Only if I'd called for a release and they ignored me would I penalise, but it doesn't look of feel right to have the ball effectively pinned and not going anywhere even though the jackler is technically still legally competing.
    Even though holding it in and winning the penalty is the expected norm for Jacklers now it seems (done it myself as a player), most of the time the tackled player is offending to be fair, but I've seen it where he's lying there hands off and the tackler just holds it in, almost forgetting that actually winning possession is an option!

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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    From the description in the OP it sounds to me like the Jackler is trying to win a penalty for holding on.

    I wouldn't give the holding on penalty unless the Jackler is actively trying to lift the ball, but nor would I penalise him. If he has hands in contact with the ball when the ruck forms he is entitled to continue to play the ball, but if he loses contact with the ball that's his chance gone.

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    Default Re: Jackling - valid or too late?

    myth time I suspect!

    * jackler arrives as first player
    * jackler gets hands on ball
    * tackled player HAS released it
    * jackler doesn't yet manage to lift it
    * opponent makes contact with jackler over the ball

    Isn't that now jackler release the ball as its not clear of the floor?

    didds

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