Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 69

Thread: Knock-on in a tackle

      
  1. #1
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    14 Jul 10
    Posts
    3,116
    Thanks (Received)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    296

    Default Knock-on in a tackle

    From the 2017 Law 12 Knock-on definitions:

    If a player in tackling an opponent makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward from the ball carrier’s hands, that is a knock-on.



    From 2018 Law 11 Knock-on

    2. It is a knock-on when a player, in tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent, makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward. Sanction: Scrum.


    The part in red was removed for the 2018 Laws. If you were reading just the 2018 version who would you say did the knocking-on?

  2. #2

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    14,672
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1363

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    These Laws are so confusingly written (both 2017 and 2018'versions)

    There is also this .. doesnt this directly contradict the 2017 Law you quote ?

    The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if:

    A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent’s hand or arm.

  3. #3
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    14 Jul 10
    Posts
    3,116
    Thanks (Received)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    296

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    No, I don't think so. The tackler ripping the ball is covered as follows:

    2017 Law 12 definitions:

    If a player rips the ball or deliberately knocks the ball from an opponent’s hands and the ball goes forward from the ball carrier’s hands, that is not a knock-on.


    2018 Law 11:

    5. The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if:


    b. A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent’s hand or arm.


    Those say pretty much the same thing.

    For now, can we just consider the question posed in the OP?
    Last edited by ChrisR; 16-04-18 at 13:04.

  4. #4

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    14,672
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1363

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    Agree.
    But don't they both say the opposite to

    If a player in tackling an opponent makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward from the ball carrier’s hands, that is a knock-on
    .

    Is this a contradiction in the 2017 Laws, resolved in 2018 ?

    Or does post #1 misquote the 2017 Law ?
    Last edited by crossref; 16-04-18 at 13:04.

  5. #5

    Referees in Australia


    Soc/Assoc
    Brisbane Rugby League Referees Association
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    27 Jul 13
    Posts
    987
    Thanks (Received)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    201

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    The 2018 law book reads as if the player making the tackle has knocked on.

    In fact, it sounds clear that that is exactly what they mean.

    Whether they did mean that though... that's another story completely.

  6. #6
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    28 Feb 17
    Posts
    977
    Thanks (Received)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    99
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    Removal of the wording relating to the KO being in respect of the BC has muddied the waters somewhat! It was previously on the face of the law but now, reference to the player in possession has been relegated to the definitions.

    Read it is isolation you might understand circumstances where those newer refs will rely on the literal wording and apply an incorrect decision.
    Last edited by ChuckieB; 16-04-18 at 14:04.

  7. #7

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    14,672
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1363

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    These Laws are written in such a way that you have to focus on the precise literal meaning to make sense of them - neither 2017 not 2018 are written in plain simple language :-(

  8. #8

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    14,672
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1363

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    I guess there are four permutations

    1 Tackler goes for man, dislodges ball, ball goes toward tacklers DBL

    2 Tackler goes for man, dislodges ball, ball goes toward ball carriers DBL

    3 Tackler goes for BALL dislodges ball, ball goes toward tacklers DBL

    4 Tackler goes for BALL dislodges ball, ball goes toward ball carriers DBL

    The exercise is, for each one
    - give the 2017 Law Ref and decision
    - give the 2018 Law Ref and decision

  9. #9
    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    14 Jul 10
    Posts
    3,116
    Thanks (Received)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    296

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    crossref, you have shone some light on the issue but, meanwhile, have digressed from the question in the OP.

    I think the 2017 laws answered all four scenarios. The 2018 laws answered 3 & 4.

    The problem with the 2018 'knock-in-a-tackle' (and the laws are correctly stated in the OP) is the loss of reference to the ball carrier. This makes "forward" seem relative to the tackler, as leaguerefaus points out.

  10. #10

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    LSRFUR
    Grade
    10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    14,672
    Thanks (Received)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    1363

    Default Re: Knock-on in a tackle

    I agree.
    In my first response I confused myself

    So the 2017 Laws were fairly clear (could have been better, but fairly clear)

    The 2018 Laws are at best ambiguous, but realistically are misleading as the natural meaning of the wording would lead you to the wrong decision

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •