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Thread: "deliberate" throw to touch?

      
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    Default "deliberate" throw to touch?

    Daft scenario that sprung to mind this morning...

    Blue are up by one point, with scrum deep in their own 22.

    Blue win ball, and blue 9 passes to blue 15 deep in-goal. Presumably 15's intention will be toi catch and step over the dead ball line or turn and kick it dead there etc etc.

    However, blue 9 pass is very poor and grubs just short of 15 who is stooping to take it. Red flank is bearing down on him - 15 is concerned that if he attempts to take the bobbling ball he may kmnock it on and red flanker can score, so instead allows the ball to pass through his legs over the DBL.

    9 did not intend to pass/throw the ball dead. 15 has just allowed the ball to pass him and go dead.

    If the DBL is a bit tricky cos of wording of the laws lets just say then that the 15 is standing in field adjacent to the to the try line and touchline and the ball passes into touch (its the concept I'm visiting not the specifics).

    Secondary questions...

    does it make any difference if

    * the pass is so bad it doesn't go anywhere near any blue player at all and goes dead (between blue players,. or over 15's head etc)

    * 15 has one foot in touch/touch-in-goal/over the dead ball line and the pass goes directly to him and he catches it normally, thus making it dead immediately? 9 hasn't deliberately thrown the ball into touch, but 15 has made the ball dead in such a manner.

    Just idling a Saturday morning away. Not intending to find a "gotcha" abuse of the law in a coahcing manner!

    didds

  2. #2

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    Default Re: "deliberate" throw to touch?

    What’s your question?
    Deliberate throw dead? No. 5 metre scrum
    I’ve seen a #9 throw it to where he thought #15 was ... but wasn’t. Still 5 metre scrum
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: "deliberate" throw to touch?

    DOH! Apoolgies!!

    the question is - is it a "deliberate" throw to touch and a PK? And trhe other piece of information is its the last play of the game! DOH!

    As its the last play of the game and no PK but would bge a 5m scrum, its no-side.

    cheers!

    didds

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    Default Re: "deliberate" throw to touch?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    ... Secondary questions... does it make any difference if

    * 15 has one foot in touch/touch-in-goal/over the dead ball line and the pass goes directly to him and he catches it normally, thus making it dead immediately? 9 hasn't deliberately thrown the ball into touch, but 15 has made the ball dead in such a manner.
    The relevant issue here now surely is did the ball cross the vertical plane of the DBL?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    ... the question is - is it a "deliberate" throw to touch and a PK? And trhe other piece of information is its the last play of the game! DOH!
    Refs judgement call I'd say.

    If the Ref thinks it's deliberate - then it's a PK.
    If the Ref thinks it's accidental - then a scrum.
    Last edited by Taff; 1 Week Ago at 12:05.

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    Default Re: "deliberate" throw to touch?

    It's the action of throwing (/knocking/pacing/pushing) "from the playing area" that must be intentional. It doesn't depend on the action of the intended recipient.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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    Default Re: "deliberate" throw to touch?

    I think didds has over complicated the scenario a bit

    Beneath it there is a good question .. if red 9 throws a perfectly decent pass to red 15 , who dodges the pass , deliberately in order for the ball to go into touch or over the DBL ... Is that an offence ?

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    Default Re: "deliberate" throw to touch?

    The law does not say the player must endeavour to keep the ball on the field,only that she must not deliberately throw the ball out of play.
    So I do not believe you can commit this offense by omission.
    And as the passing player made a plausible attempt - it is not C&O. So in my mind no offense.

    But if it looked really wrong - then on the day in the actual I might decide differently.

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    Default Re: "deliberate" throw to touch?

    I have seen a video on youtube, womens rugby, there is a scrum the siren goes for the end of the match( White are 15 to 10 up). White win the ball and instead of just kicking it out they run it up then realise the match time is up try kick it out but kick it backwards into their own players hands who throws the ball out deliberately.
    The referee speaks to the AR who says it was thrown out and the referee goes to the captain and say to her, that her player threw the ball out intentionally and a penalty against them on the 15m in line where the ball went out. This eventually ends up blue score a try and then convert the try to win 15 - 17.

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    Default Re: "deliberate" throw to touch?

    Quote Originally Posted by rugbyslave View Post
    I have seen a video on youtube, womens rugby, there is a scrum the siren goes for the end of the match( White are 15 to 10 up). White win the ball and instead of just kicking it out they run it up then realise the match time is up try kick it out but kick it backwards into their own players hands who throws the ball out deliberately.
    The referee speaks to the AR who says it was thrown out and the referee goes to the captain and say to her, that her player threw the ball out intentionally and a penalty against them on the 15m in line where the ball went out. This eventually ends up blue score a try and then convert the try to win 15 - 17.
    Exactly right. And not relevant to this discussion, which is about NOT deliberately throwing it out.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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