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Thread: U20 Tackle Trials

      
  1. #31
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: U20 Tackle Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Why ? Because we know that most concussion happens to the tackler, and almost all tackles are low, so it's coming from hips, knees and boots. Experience is that clashes of heads are rare , and when they do happen it's moat usually from diving ball carriers (ie colliding with low tacklers )
    That doesn't follow. The number of concussions is vastly smaller than the number of tackles, or even the number of high tackles. If high tackles are more dangerous where there's head contact, you can't conclude that most concussions are from hips and below - even if you have the data on what proportion of the tackles are high or low, which I don't.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: U20 Tackle Trials

    I wholeheartedly agree that we are not given any information to suggest whether lower tackling will lead to more or less concussion

    Which is really my point , the WR press releases claim this is evidence led , but the evidence they quote doesn't show that

    I suspect more , but I agree we have no hard evidence either way
    Last edited by crossref; 06-06-18 at 12:06.

  3. #33
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: U20 Tackle Trials

    My broad summary and interpretation of recent changes and current trials is something like;

    - Too many concussions, concussions come from contact to the head
    - Ignore stats that show most concussions occur to tackler
    - Adjust high tackle interpretations to remove chances of contact with the head
    - Stop ignoring stats that show most concussions occur to tackler
    - Implement a trial that at least focuses on the tackler and doing 'something'

    The detail and the stats (whilst relevant) are incomplete to draw good conclusions, and whilst I support the idea of the trial (and reducing the high hits), this is rugby at the end of the day and I struggle to see how anything can be done whilst tacklers are shoving their heads in and around hips and knees. Will happily go out and buy a hat and then eat it if this trial shows any substantial positives though.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: U20 Tackle Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Yes , but that is saying that if you make head contact , then high head contact is more likely to lead to head injury, than low head contact

    Or, roughly head on head is worse than head on hip

    I accept that, but it DOESNT say that tackling high leads to more head injury to the tackler .

    That is different.
    It is quite subtle , but it's different
    Tackler Head concussions are linked to the arrival height AND technique of the tackler, least that's my understanding, I say well done WR for trialing a change of 'approach'

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    Default Re: U20 Tackle Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    ..... I struggle to see how anything can be done whilst tacklers are shoving their heads in and around hips and knees.
    They always used to, before the rise of concussions , so maybe in this case the old ways were the best [for player safety]

    For me the main issue is that tackling low has disappeared out of the game primarily because the tackled player is allowed to do so much with the ball [including long delaying of the pass after he's been brought to ground] so much so that there is little value of tackling low [aside from last ditch etc..]

    If WR re-balance the scales then maybe the 'dislodge-stop dead-smash' wouldn't be seen as such a better option.

    ?

  6. #36

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    Default Re: U20 Tackle Trials

    Quote Originally Posted by VM75 View Post
    Tackler Head concussions are linked to the arrival height AND technique of the tackler, least that's my understanding, I say well done WR for trialing a change of 'approach'
    'linked' well probably yes.

    The quotes are evidence that head-head clashes are more serious that head-hip clashes (but I think we all knew that)

    But if your aim is to reduce head-head clashes (which we'd all like) you need to know -

    - are tackles a significant cause of head to head to head collisions ? (compared to, say, collisions trying to catch a ball in the air)

    - when does happen in a tackle, what types of tackle most often cause it ? Generally speaking are head-head collisions caused by high tackles, or are they caused by ball carriers diving into low tackles


    I also welcome the trial.

    But a trial needs to set out what it is trying to achieve. The laws of averages say that in the U20s comp some types of injury will randomly happen less than you'd expect, others will happen, randomly, more often. So a trial needs to set out the expected result. You can't restrospectively cherry pick the actual result

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