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Thread: when is the ball in goal?

      
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    Default when is the ball in goal?

    When is the ball, on the ground, in goal ?

    - if it's touching the goal line, is it in goal ?
    - or does it gave to be all the way past the goal line?

    Touching, right?

    So AG got it wrong here ?


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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    But he did not touch it down, he picked it up and waved it about.
    Had he immediately touched down, then it would be a dropout.

    Now we are in an undefined area.
    The laws simply do not define when a ball enters the in-goal.

    The ball is being carried, so do the roles for entering touch apply - that is do we look at the player's feet.
    In which case it probably never left the in-goal.

    Or do we simply look at the ball and the plane of the in-goal - in which case the defender may well have taken the ball back into the field of play and returned it to the in-goal.

    Should he have gone to the TMO,given no official within 30m there is a case.
    But the main mistake was by the player for giving AG the decision to make.

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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    If the ball was in goal (which I think it was) it makes no difference if the defender picks it up, waves it around before he touches it down.. it's still a 22

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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    An error by AG for me.

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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    The point that Camquin is making is that there is no definition for a ball to be deemed 'in-goal'. We are left to assume that there is to be a 'plane-of-goal' as there is a 'plane-of-touch'.

    So, a ball on the goal line is in goal. A player may pick up the ball without grounding it. If that player has a foot in goal does the ball stay in goal when it's in his possession? If, in picking up the ball he moves the ball into the field-of-play but his foot remains in goal, what then? Has the ball actually left the in-goal?

    I'm with Camquin, ground the ball when it's on the line and don't give the ref any chance to get it wrong.

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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    For me ref got correct call .
    The ball bobbles onto goal line & rests out side goal line ( the fact that ball touched the goal line , is still play on )
    If this was the dead ball line or side line , the ball would become dead .
    But as the ball touches the goal line its not dead .
    The deffender who was in goal , picked up a ball which was in field of play ,,there fore he took it back ..

    The deffender him self told the ref same by his actions ..
    Had the ball it self stayed in goal or stayed on the actual goal line fair enough .
    But it didnt ,,it rested in field of play .

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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    Definition:
    Field of play: The area between the goal lines and the touch lines. Those lines are not part of the field of play.

    Law 21 In Goal:
    DEFENDING PLAYER IN IN-GOAL
    13. If any part of a defending player is in in-goal, that player is considered to be in in-goal, provided they are not also in touch or on or over the dead-ball line.
    14. If a player, who is in in-goal, catches or picks up a ball that is still in the field of play, that player has taken the ball into in-goal.
    15. If a player who is on or beyond the dead-ball line or who is in touch-in-goal, picks up a moving ball within in-goal, that player is not deemed to have made the ball dead.

    Law 18 Touch
    TOUCH OR TOUCH-IN-GOAL
    1. The ball is in touch or touch-in-goal when:
    a. The ball or ball-carrier touches the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond.
    b. A player, who is already touching the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond, catches or holds the ball.
    i. If the ball has reached the plane of touch when it is caught, the catcher is not deemed to have taken the ball into touch.
    ii. If the ball has not reached the plane of touch when it is caught or picked up, the catcher is deemed to have taken the ball into touch, regardless of whether the ball was in motion or stationary.


    Therefore, as:

    Law 21. 14 states If a player, who is in in-goal, catches or picks up a ball that is still in the field of play, that player has taken the ball into in-goal.
    The field of play is defined as the area between the goal lines and the touch lines. Those lines are not part of the field of play.
    Law 18 refers to the ball REACHING the plane of touch not crossing it.


    I deduce that if a player who is standing in goal picks up a ball that has reached the plane of the goal line and then touches it down in goal then that player has picked up a ball that was not in the field of play and therefore the restart should be 22 drop out.
    Last edited by Jolly Roger; 08-08-18 at 20:08.
    Keep smiling!

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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    I know the law.

    21.14 talks about a ball in the field of play - but does not actually define what that means.
    So if I catch a ball as it crosses the plane of the goal line at what point did I pick it up in the field of play.
    Is it in the in goal when any part of the ball has crossed the plane?
    Or only when no part is inside the field of play?
    Does it matter where my hands are?

    The phrase plane of the goal line does not actually occur in the law book.
    So the goal line may only exist on the ground.
    Therefore the ball may only be in goal when it touches the ground - which was the case with touch until 2017/8.
    2017 trials introduced the plane of touch - though it was always there as the line out took place where the ball entered touch.

    Also while the ball is in my hands while I am in goal , is the ball deemed in-goal, or is the plane of the goal line important?
    Bear in mind, the plane of touch is irrelevant while I hold a ball.

    Also what about the case where an attacker is carrying the ball.
    The attacker is still in the field of play.
    The ball has crossed the plane of the goal line - if that exists.
    But before he grounds it, a defender strips the ball and grounds it.
    What is the restart?


    things to consider, if I am carrying the ball and put a foot in touch, it matters not where the ball is, it matters whether my foot lands in touch or touch in goal.
    99 times out of 100 it matters not.
    The 100th time makes some people question AG.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    Its fairly simple

    1. The goal line is not treated exactly like the touch line. If the ball touches the touchline, its in touch regardless of whatever happens next. The fact that the ball touched the goal-line and rolled back into the field of play does not mean the ball was in the in-goal

    2. The ball was in the field of play, not touching the goal-line (and clearly so). Janjies even indicated this to the referee by his actions.

    3. Jantjies picked it up while he himself was standing in the in-goal, and then grounded it.


    Law 21
    14. If a player, who is in in-goal, catches or picks up a ball that is still in the field of play, that player has taken the ball into in-goal.


    4. That is a 5m scrum with the opposition to throw in

    Gus got the call 100% correct.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 08-08-18 at 21:08.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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    Default Re: when is the ball in goal?

    Hi jolly .
    The laws you have pasted have now been amended & brought into law.
    If you havent already ,,down load the world rugby laws app .

    Under the laws section ,,some are still the old laws .
    Even under the text of smaller law book . ( this im sure will change when next season book comes out )
    But there is also a law section showing laws 2018 ammendments . ( we all need to read these laws & take them on board where applicable )

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