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Thread: The haka is overused

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    Ive no problem with the Haka, it adds to the occasion imo, but as was said above there should be no right to perform it just before KO or that the opposition must stand there and watch them.

    By all means they shouldnt do anything to disrespect it like kicking a ball into the middle of them but they should be allowed to watch it (or not) whichever way they want to.
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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    But that is the case now. While there is a regulation that says teams are allowed to have time on the pitch pre game to perform a dance (all teams , or just Pacific teams ???) there is no Regulation that forces the opponents to watch it.
    AFAIK oppo are not allowed to leave the pitch at this late stage, and they have to stay behind their 10m line , but they are free to turn their backs .. or simply to continue with warm up drill etc. There are many precedents for this

    - - - Updated - - -

    But that is the case now. While there is a regulation that says teams are allowed to have time on the pitch pre game to perform a dance (all teams , or just Pacific teams ???) there is no Regulation that forces the opponents to watch it.
    AFAIK oppo are not allowed to leave the pitch at this late stage, and they have to stay behind their 10m line , but they are free to turn their backs .. or simply to continue with warm up drill etc. There are many precedents for this

  3. #13

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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    My concern is the claim to an inalienable right to perform the haka immediately before the kick-off, regardless of anything else. This once famously led to performing it in the changing room.
    This is a myth. You have been listening too closely to WRU whinging.

    Haka is about us, and our motivation, not about the opposition or anyone else. We choose to share it, but there are conditions, and one of those is that we perform it immediately before kick off. If this doesn't suit the host union then fine. That is their choice, we'll perform it in the changing rooms.

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    its not the immediacy before the KO that's any issue for me particularly - as much as I can get exercised about it. It's this concept of "the oppo must respect it" - when clearly that was never the case previously and mainly done for the entertainment of the crowd.

    didds
    Another myth, this one perpetrated by the British media and sometimes the Australian media, although I actually blame WR for this.

    There is absolutely no requirement whatsoever to "respect Haka". You ask ANY Kaumātua (tribal elder) what your response should be (and I have) and he will tell you that how you respond is up to you. In recent times, the Welsh stared us down, the Irish advanced in line, the French formed a "V" and advanced point first before lining up across the half way. Nothing wrong with any of those at all. The Wallabies did try to ignore it once (as was their right), however, this didn't end well for them... 80 minutes later it was 43-6. They never did it again.

    This BS about what opposition should do comes from World Rugby, not from the All Blacks, or their management, or the NZRU, and certainly NOT from Māori.


    IMO, this is how it should work...

    1. The All Blacks should only perform Haka as of right, in home matches. They will do so immediately before kick-off, on the pitch and on the 10m line (our house, our culture, our rules).

    2. For away matches, they only perform it if the host union or players request it (their house, their rules). However, if it is performed, it will be immediately before kick off (our culture, our rules). If the hosts don't agree to that, then it will be performed in the changing rooms.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 15-08-18 at 06:08.
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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    somebody needs to have a quiet chat with WR then.

    Whilst WR propagate the respect stuff the world unsurprisingly will still view it as writ.

    didds

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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    Of course the haka used to be reserved for away games .. part of rugby's widespread tradition of being silly on tour. It's odd how kiwi attitudes have changed since then

    I think the situation now is much more to do with modern NZ culture than ancient Maori traditions.

    Were there any ancient Maori team sports ?

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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    This is a myth. You have been listening too closely to WRU whinging.

    Haka is about us, and our motivation, not about the opposition or anyone else. We choose to share it, but there are conditions, and one of those is that we perform it immediately before kick off. If this doesn't suit the host union then fine. That is their choice, we'll perform it in the changing rooms.
    That is just a spin on the way I expressed it.



    Another myth, this one perpetrated by the British media and sometimes the Australian media, although I actually blame WR for this.

    There is absolutely no requirement whatsoever to "respect Haka".
    So instead of saying they were going to sing after the haka, the Welsh would have been welcome to sing during it? Interesting.

    IMO, this is how it should work...

    1. The All Blacks should only perform Haka as of right, in home matches. They will do so immediately before kick-off, on the pitch and on the 10m line (our house, our culture, our rules).

    2. For away matches, they only perform it if the host union or players request it (their house, their rules). However, if it is performed, it will be immediately before kick off (our culture, our rules). If the hosts don't agree to that, then it will be performed in the changing rooms.
    I'll take option 2, part 2 please. The significance of the whole thing has become over-inflated.
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  7. #17

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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    I always liked the haka , but agree its over inflated
    It's also over choreographed .. it looks more like a stage dance than warriors doing a rough war dance
    It's also too long

    And they do it too often

    Scale it down
    Shorten it
    Don't rehearse as much
    Do it for special games not every single one

    Then we would all come to love it again

  8. #18

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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I always liked the haka , but agree its over inflated
    It's also over choreographed .. it looks more like a stage dance than warriors doing a rough war dance
    It's also too long

    And they do it too often

    Scale it down
    Shorten it
    Don't rehearse as much
    Do it for special games not every single one

    Then we would all come to love it again
    So to be clear: white English man telling NZers how they should handle their own native culture? Is that fairly accurate?
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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    Here we see the respect agenda !

    If only Maori are allowed to have a view, it will be a short thread

    Correct me if I am wrong, but don't think the Maori played any type of football/rugby, did they ?
    So there are no Maori traditions relating to the use of the haka as a pre game preparation and entertainment

    As to the length of it, the current versions all all contemparay choreographies aren't they ?

    I don't think the haka as seen pre rugby matches has much to do with ancient Maori traditions, it's more to do with modern NZ values
    Last edited by crossref; 15-08-18 at 12:08.

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    Default Re: The haka is overused

    I seemn to recall being told the national Anthem was introduced as a responce to the Haka and was played after it.

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