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Thread: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

      
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    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    NKW brought this up in January but the thread didn't get much traction then. So now that the trials are in the 2018 Laws I'm wondering what the impact on the game is.


    2017 Laws
    (d) At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.

    2018 Laws
    6. Tacklers may play the ball from the direction of their own goal line provided they have complied with the above responsibilities and a ruck has not formed.

    8. Other players must :
    c. Arrive at the tackle from the direction of their own goal line before playing the ball.



    So, in 2017 we had the virtual 'gate' as a reference. Now we have "from the direction of their own goal line".

    I recall that 'coming in from the side' being applied at a tackle in the 2018 World 7s. I wasn't sure if the 2018 trials were in force.

    With the new season under way have y'all given this much thought? Any instructions from your societies?

    As a coach I'm going to stick to 'behind the ball' until I get a sense of what the parameters are. Didds, any thoughts?

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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    In case it helps, the guidance (informally) given to me was there is little changed. The wording changed to disambiguate the meaning of "behind" in the phrase "behind the ball" which could be interpreted relative to a tackler. Instead the phrase "from the direction of their own goal line" is intended to be less subjective.
    I am not changing my interpretation of what "coming in from the side" means - roughly a 90 degree wedge with an apex at the tackle area ( or gate ).
    Hasnt been remarked upon by any Match-observer so far :-)

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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    I'm taking the same approach as Chris. A totaslly fresh reading of current laws with no historicval context may mean that "sideways entry" appears to be permitted.

    I'm not convinced that that is a deliberate change , doubt that WADR many "old" refs (ie before 2018!) even notice the change anyway, or change their interpretation if they do. Brand new refs needs advice as part of their training.

    It is however a clear case of the simplification possibly ending up as not... ;-)

    didds

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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    NKW brought this up in January but the thread didn't get much traction then. So now that the trials are in the 2018 Laws I'm wondering what the impact on the game is.


    2017 Laws
    (d) At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.

    2018 Laws
    6. Tacklers may play the ball from the direction of their own goal line provided they have complied with the above responsibilities and a ruck has not formed.

    8. Other players must :
    c. Arrive at the tackle from the direction of their own goal line before playing the ball.



    So, in 2017 we had the virtual 'gate' as a reference. Now we have "from the direction of their own goal line".

    I recall that 'coming in from the side' being applied at a tackle in the 2018 World 7s. I wasn't sure if the 2018 trials were in force.

    With the new season under way have y'all given this much thought? Any instructions from your societies?

    As a coach I'm going to stick to 'behind the ball' until I get a sense of what the parameters are. Didds, any thoughts?
    Well, in a strictly technical sense, the range of directions encompassing "the direction of your own goal line" gets wider the closer you are to it, and narrower the further you are from it. I regard "the direction of your own goal line" to be the direction toward the nearest part of your own goal-line, i.e. directly behind the ball. I sure that is what the writers meant even if they didn't write it that way.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 21-08-18 at 01:08.
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    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Well, in a strictly technical sense, the range of directions encompassing "the direction of your own goal line" gets wider the closer you are to it, and narrower the further you are from it. I regard "the direction of your own goal line" to be the direction toward the nearest part of your own goal-line, i.e. directly behind the ball. I sure that is what the writers meant even if they didn't write it that way.
    If that was what they meant then why change the wording from 2017? I'm thinking that they meant "from that players own side of the ball" but without regard to the 'gate'. But then why didn't they say that?

    I raised it to see if there had been any subsequent union/society directives.

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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    If that was what they meant then why change the wording from 2017? I'm thinking that they meant "from that players own side of the ball" but without regard to the 'gate'. But then why didn't they say that?

    I raised it to see if there had been any subsequent union/society directives.
    I've seen players who have come in at around a 45° angle being PK for side entry. Under what I said in my previous post, that would be PK, but under "own side of the ball", that would be legal.

    And that is at a few levels of the game too; Saturday morning at the local park, in Mitre 10 Cup, and Super Rugby.
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    For me the impact of the change is to relax the Law a little bit .. is a slightly wider angle of approach is now allowed.

    Ieg f you allowed 30deg before you might allow 45 Deg now ..

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    Player or Coach ChrisR's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    Ian, your observations are what I had anticipated. That the only real change in the trials, and now in law, is to prohibit the tackler from going for the ball from the opponent's side.

    I think everyone accepted the concept of a 'gate' ("directly behind the tackled player") and the meaning of "behind the ball" as a means of keeping order at the tackle. To allow side entry is an invitation for more chaos.

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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    I've written to my "boss" at USA R asking for formal guidance.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

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    Default Re: The Gate is dead! Long live the Gate!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    If that was what they meant then why change the wording from 2017? I'm thinking that they meant "from that players own side of the ball" but without regard to the 'gate'. But then why didn't they say that?

    I raised it to see if there had been any subsequent union/society directives.
    As to why change the wording... i'll put it down to getting so focused with "simplifying" the laws that sense whent out of the window - or there were a lot of abse presumptions being made

    didds

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