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Thread: Illegal studs

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post

    This is a significant safety related issue so why is there not clear universal guidance? .......please don’t come back and tell me that Reg 12 provides it!
    Reg 12 provides it

  2. #42

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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    Read it properly. I did not! I said your point was irrelevant to the discussion. However as an aside yes it is advisable t oknow what the regulations are. Sorry but I did thik that was pretty clear.

    To sumarise:

    1; Either tell the player to change the stud or do not tell him it is illegal (with the caveat - Watch what you do with it)

    However, Before that you do need to be clear as to what is and is not legal.

    No cotradiction there. The OP descibed a questionable action - that of telling a player a stud is illegal and then letting him wear it. That is foolish to my mind.

    When you do the compulsory stud check you either accept the studs as legal - in which case say nothing OR your tell a player that the stus are not legal in which case he changes them or faces a red card if he does not. You cannot say thats illegal but I'm going to allow them. That is suicide!

    Your helpful comments do not address that issue. That said It does help if a referee know what an illegal stud is before commenting,
    Amazing argument.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    Quote Originally Posted by chbg View Post
    Amazing argument.

    Two different issues. sorry you are not able to see that. I'm not going to waste any more tome explaining that to you.

  4. #44

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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    "Follow the money" I believe is the advice!

    didds

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    World Rugby's performance criterion testing requirements and lack of a "kite mark" to indicate boots that pass means that manufacturers are self certifying that a boot sold as suitable for rugby meets Reg 12. Unless you have some crazy level of knowledge of the boot market you won't know if a boot has been sold as such, or if it's just a football boot. A quick look at (for instance) Lovell Rugby demonstrates that they are selling plenty of football boots under the rugby banner (I do understand this isn't proof of the manufacturers' intent), and also that there are plenty of varieties of stud on boots that are *specifically* labelled as rugby boots (in what Lovell are presenting as the name of the boot, i.e. a surer sign of manufacturer intent / certification).

    This variety includes
    - boots with a 'blade' type profile (https://www.lovell-rugby.co.uk/Rugby...lack-or-Orange)
    - boots with 'conical' studs (https://www.lovell-rugby.co.uk/Rugby...SG-Rugby-Boots)
    - boots with a single moulded toe stud (https://www.lovell-rugby.co.uk/Rugby...by-Boots-Black)

    Personal take on this is that Reg 12 firmly outlaws anything >21mm in length, and leaves everything else to self-certification. And if the credible manufacturers of the above 3 examples can be assumed to be within the performance criteria, then many boots will be.

    So what I look for is burring / wear etc that is clearly going to be an issue if it contacts skin or has taken the stud some distance from it's manufactured state, and I'm generally less concerned about the variety of shapes I see. The most dangerous boots I've seen and taken action on aren't anything to do with the original design of the boot/stud, and *always* down to neglect on the part of the owner.

  6. #46

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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    I am seeing a lot of these, as featured on the rugby ref

    http://therugbyref.blogspot.com/2018...-some-new.html

    I don't like them... But I am not rejecting them

  7. #47

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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I am seeing a lot of these, as featured on the rugby ref

    http://therugbyref.blogspot.com/2018...-some-new.html

    I don't like them... But I am not rejecting them
    Thankfully I haven't seem them, but if the edge is rough as you rub your hand against them, I would ask for them to be replaced.

    The bit I liked was

    I've just bought myself some new Canterbury boots, a good reputable rugby brand, but I am a bit dubious about the legality of the studs.
    As I was told on a course once; "If you're not sure you need to do something - you almost certainly do need to do something." Wise words, which stuck with me.

  8. #48

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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    Thankfully I haven't seem them, but if the edge is rough as you rub your hand against them, I would ask for them to be replaced. :
    Last week i think there were probably six to eight pairs of boots like that (it was a school game, growing feet a LOT of brand new boots , lots of them seem to come with studs like that )

    I could have rejected them all. I can manage the eye rolling and huffing

    BUT neither team would have 15 pairs of boots between them

    I just don't think my Society would have felt comfortable with my decision when the inevitable complaint came in

    Bring back the kite mark I say
    Last edited by crossref; 1 Week Ago at 13:09.

  9. #49

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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Last week i think there were probably six to eight pairs of boots like that (it was a school game, growing feet a LOT of brand new boots , lots of them seem to come with studs like that )

    I could have rejected them all. I can manage the eye rolling and huffing

    BUT neither team would have 15 pairs of boots between them

    I just don't think my Society would have felt comfortable with my decision when the inevitable complaint came in

    Bring back the kite mark I say

    Whilst I am sympathetic to the dilemma, why perform a stud check if you will allow studs you are not happy with on the grounds there are too many 'illegal' studs?

    This takes you into very dangerous territory if someone is injured. They are either OK and you play, or they are not and you don't, there should not be a middle ground due to player, coach or Society pressure.

    Speaking of Societies this is something I think Societies need to take a lead on. There is very little practical guidance on the legality of studs, particularly since the allowance of blades. Some practical examples at meetings would be very useful.

  10. #50

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    Default Re: Illegal studs

    I perform a stud check because
    1 it's in the Law
    2 my society say we should
    3 to look for anything egregious

    These studs are not egregious and they are brand new, shiny and undamaged

    I suspect they don't meet regulations , but I can't be sure . Indeed no one can possibly know whether they do or not

    I don't think they are suitable for rugby but other refs would no doubt disagree. Some probably wear them



    The studs I reject are the sort where, when the coach comes blustering over to see what are these studs that the idiot ref has rejected, he has a look at them and says : well, actually he's right , you can't play in those ..
    Last edited by crossref; 1 Week Ago at 16:09.

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