Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 81

Thread: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

      
  1. #21

    Referees in Wales
    Taff's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Llanelli District
    Grade
    WRU Level 2
    Join Date
    23 Aug 09
    Posts
    6,915
    Thanks (Received)
    34
    Likes (Received)
    338

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Referees may cover many different competitions, whereas the teams may only have a couple. I think it is the team's responsibility to have a copy of the relevant regulations available.
    Cracking idea. So a Ref can say "I will be following the WR lawbook .... unless you can show me competition regulations which tell me otherwise."

    I've asked for Competition Regs before and was just told "They're online". Everything is online - that's part of the problem; you can't see the wood for the trees. If it's so easy, can you find them and e-mail me a link?
    Last edited by Taff; 07-10-18 at 14:10.

  2. #22

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,552
    Thanks (Received)
    110
    Likes (Received)
    1554

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Some teams play in shared multi sport municipal facikities and can't put up poster etc.
    Then whoever is in charge that day should have a copy themselves.

    Alao, as an example , The main competitiin near me is the Middlesex Merit Table. They haven't put their 2018 / 19 regs on n line yet.
    In which case the fault lies with the competition organisers/webmaster/etc.

    So no one can really be blamed for not being sure what the regs are
    So the referee must concentrate on applying the law and the clubs can sort out any other problems afterwards. They may need to make ad hoc decisions for the match in progress.

    All the local competition regularly tinker with these parts of the regs from season to season, you can't assume last year's regs still apply
    Yes, and it takes time for the clubs to get used to any changes. We have just changed our reporting system and some people are still using the old one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    Cracking idea. So a Ref can say "I will be following the WR lawbook .... unless you can show me competition regulations which tell me otherwise."

    I've asked for Competition Regs before and was just told "They're online". Everything is online - that's part of the problem; you can't see the wood for the trees. If it's so easy, can you find them and e-mail me a link?
    We email the regulations to the nominated Point of Contact (from their entry form) and also supply a laminated poster with the main match-day points. We make it clear it is the club's responsibility to know the regulations, not the referee's.

    We have a regulation that if one team is short of players, the other can only have a one man advantage. When one team insisted of playing with all 15, the referee allowed it because nobody could show him the regulations.

    Clubs try to shovel too much responsibility on to referees.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #23

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    9,700
    Thanks (Received)
    64
    Likes (Received)
    933

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    If that is true, I think that is a very bad situation. It is forcing coaches to play unqualified players in front row to avoid a forfeit with dire safety risks.
    strikes me you start the game with a "full FR" *cough* and sometime before the first scrum the non real-FR FR players get injured and cant play on....

    ... though that means those players get jo game so the status quo is actually better really.

  4. #24
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    1,528
    Thanks (Received)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    336

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    And that does happen.

  5. #25

    Referees in Australia
    TigerCraig's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Sydney North & NSWRRA
    Grade
    Level 1 Ref/Level 2 AR
    Join Date
    19 May 08
    Posts
    1,364
    Thanks (Received)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    195

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    Sure, I know that.

    I dunno about your second bit though. If a team doesn't have the minimum required players then they shouldn't be able to play for competition points. I believe the change was made in 2016 or 2017 or so. I think the more controversial part was saying that if a team has less than 15 they automatically default. While a front row is essential to a game, I don't agree that being a fullback or a flanker down should cost the game.

    I must admit, though I actually cannot recall a time when I've turned up and there has been 15 players but not 3 STE's. I think our unions are pretty good at running front row factories every year.
    Some of the smaller clubs here would hardly have a game if we had that 15 player rule. On the other hand when my club has had only 14 we have called uncontested even with a ste front row. Theory being if we are going to play with 14 anyway we may as well get good ball

  6. #26

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    12,445
    Thanks (Received)
    112
    Likes (Received)
    1324

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    They may need to make ad hoc decisions for the match in progress.
    call me OCD, but that wouldn't be my preferred route that a bit of preparation by the ref may have avoided.

    I'll be refereeing in a tournament in Cambodia later this month and, with other referees (the night before and over a few beers), review & confirm all tournament rules. Seems more sensible than rocking up on the day and hoping for the best. Or running around looking for the tournament director 1 minute before kick off to find how subs are going to work, how long is each half, etc.

    But I can see the attraction of the adrenelin rush when you hit an "oh, f**k" moment. To each their own.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 07-10-18 at 23:10.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  7. #27

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,552
    Thanks (Received)
    110
    Likes (Received)
    1554

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    call me OCD, but that wouldn't be my preferred route that a bit of preparation by the ref may have avoided.

    I'll be refereeing in a tournament in Cambodia later this month and, with other referees (the night before and over a few beers), review & confirm all tournament rules. Seems more sensible than rocking up on the day and hoping for the best. Or running around looking for the tournament director 1 minute before kick off to find how subs are going to work, how long is each half, etc.

    But I can see the attraction of the adrenlin rush when you hit an "oh, f**k" moment. To each their own.
    I'm looking at the longer term - getting clubs to take some responsibility. I am also looking at referees who are not just coping with the occasional non-standard situation. One keen young chap I assessed had done a school match Saturday morning, and was doing a club match that afternoon. The next day he had a Junior match in the morning and a women's game in the afternoon.

    YMMV. Autre pays, autre moeurs.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #28

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    12,445
    Thanks (Received)
    112
    Likes (Received)
    1324

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    I'm looking at the longer term - getting clubs to take some responsibility. I am also looking at referees who are not just coping with the occasional non-standard situation. One keen young chap I assessed had done a school match Saturday morning, and was doing a club match that afternoon. The next day he had a Junior match in the morning and a women's game in the afternoon.

    YMMV. Autre pays, autre moeurs.
    Yes, I can see his pickle (figuratively) but, IMO, part of his keenness should include some preparation - especially for schools/juniors where variations may be safety related.

    The alternative is asking the coaches' pre-match for variations. If so, what if the coaches don't agree?

    Or does he not ask the coaches then wait til they criticise him for failing to apply the variations?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  9. #29

    Referees in America
    Rank Bajin!
    SimonSmith's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Virginia (USA)
    Grade
    B3
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    8,419
    Thanks (Received)
    55
    Likes (Received)
    764

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donk93953 View Post
    USA University level match.....Team Blue does not have sufficiently trained props.
    The props have one week of practice under their belts according to Team Blue coach.
    Coach of Team Blue asks for unopposed scrums under Law 3.
    Team Red claims under Law 3 its a forfeit because Team Blue doesn't have adequately trained players to play prop.
    Team Blue's concern appears to be safety.....Team Red wants to keep their number one standing.
    I as referee, felt safety was the concern and Law 3 (13) covered the issue.
    Hence, uncontested scrums and play on....no ordered forfeiture.
    Team Red's coach say they will play under protest.

    Your thoughts?
    Forfeit or not is not your decision - it's the Competition Director. You referee whatever is in front of you, according to the law. You do NOT adjudicate on forfeit or not.

    Signed

    LRO President.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  10. #30

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    12,445
    Thanks (Received)
    112
    Likes (Received)
    1324

    Default Re: Law 3....hmmmm...I'll log a protest.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Forfeit or not is not your decision - it's the Competition Director. You referee whatever is in front of you, according to the law. You do NOT adjudicate on forfeit or not.

    Signed

    LRO President.
    But is the Competition Director present at the game or contactable? If I was the Red coach I'd want to know pre-game if this was a forfeit or not before I put my players at injury risk. If it is a forfeit, it'd be back on the bus for my boys and a light training session back at our manor.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •