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Thread: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    remember that 8s now also are allowed to handle the ball in the scrum

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    remember that 8s now also are allowed to handle the ball in the scrum
    Yes and no. It depends on what exactly they use their hands to do.
    They can pick the ball up but not channel it back and leave it.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    19.29 Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team in possession has at least one foot level with or behind the ball.
    My understanding from your post is that we should use the scrum law in this ruck query to keep similar on field situations uniformly refereed in the absence of specifics.

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    19.29 Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team in possession has at least one foot level with or behind the ball.
    following 19.29, the picture from the lawbook law 15 is not in agreement for a ruck

    ruck-offside.jpg

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    I think I caused the confusion by accidentally citing scrum laws in a thread about a ruck. That was an accidental mistake .

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Because he has part of one foot in front of the back of the ball, you mean ?
    Is that material ?
    By law 15, the offside line for player actin as SH is HMF. A poster may have suggested that 19.29 can be applied.

    Now as far as materiality. If we do not allow the player as SH this dispensation, we may end up with unplayable ball, more stoppages, and more scrums.

    Conversely, it is almost always material if an offside player to play the ball. But is this case discussed and for the sake of a pleasant afternoon, it isn't material. I dunno.
    Last edited by Not Kurt Weaver; 11-10-18 at 13:10.

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    For me it is all about materiality and a key question is whether the contest for the ball is over. if so, then I am not going to ping a s/h for a bit of digging or stepping ahead of the hind foot to do so. But if there is a clear track back for the ball I will expect the s/h to use their feet to move it. What I won't allow is the s/h to wander up the side to dig the ball out and then take off running forwards.

    Oh, and remember that when OB (and some of the rest of us) were boys, there was no such thing as a ruck, it was called a loose scrum, so using some of the scrum offsides for the side who has won the ball does not seem stupid.

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    I am not a fan of scrum halves positionig the ball with their feet , but it seems to be universally accepted so ...

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    the alternatives being

    * watching a ball stuck under a leg in static ruck for 30 seconds then blowing for a scrum
    * allowing the s/half to dig around with probably both hands to free it - but in so doing being in a poor position to pass away decently so then having to allow them to leave the ball at the base just inside and reposition to achieve some sort of decent clearance

    It just comes down to what sort of game "we" want to play/watch/referee

    didds

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    Default Re: When could a #9's digging in ruck become hands in?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I am not a fan of scrum halves positionig the ball with their feet , but it seems to be universally accepted so ...
    Once the ball is clearly won then I have no problem with moving the ball back by hand or foot. When players are stacked in the ruck to provide more depth for the box kick how else is the SH going to move the ball to the hind foot?

    C'mon let's just get it back in play.

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