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Thread: Collapsing Rucks

      
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    Default Collapsing Rucks

    Given that the Law says you can't collapse a ruck, and you must endeavour to stay on your feet, why do we allow players to perform judo rolls and similar, where you take both your opponent and yourself to ground ?

    That's the question Ben Ryan asks Nigel Owens .. who doesnt half waffle on in response ..

    In reality there is no good answer , other than "we don't enforce that Law" which is not really available to Nigel

    He will go into politics won't he ?

    This passage reminds me a lot of the sort of discussions we have here on this site

    From 42.30 here


    Brian and Ben discuss the big talking points in the Premiership, and get stuck into who should and shouldn't be on the plane to Japan for England next year - with Ben standing by his belief that England will not win the World Cup with George Ford at fly half. We

    * duration: 56:10, Played: 48:02

    * Published: 08/10/2018 20:39:39

    * Episode Download link (77 MB): https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3...ED_mixdown.mp3

    * Show Notes: https://telegraphmediagroup.podbean....t-george-ford/

    * Episode feed: Brian Moore's Full Contact - https://telegraphmediagroup.podbean.com/feed/
    Last edited by crossref; 10-10-18 at 07:10.

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    They don't enforce it because they've been told not to - simple as that. And he can't say that.

    I disagree with it. But TPTB have it mandated, and thus it goes.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    I have pinged this, was a 1:1 ruck and second man in from one team rolled his opponent out which in essence destroyed the ruck (just the rollers team mate and the ball left). Explained why and what he could have done and all was good. Possibly a more difficult sell when the ruck remains after and players expect to be allowed to do this though.

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    They don't enforce it because they've been told not to - simple as that. And he can't say that.

    I disagree with it. But TPTB have it mandated, and thus it goes.
    Where the conversation got all rugbyrefs is the passages where NO tried to explain that the Law doesn't really mean what it appears to, and it is in fact completely consistent with the way that it is reffed ...

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Thank fully i dont see it in games i ref .
    The little guy is very rarely going to roll a big guy .
    The big guy doesnt need to roll a little guy , he will simply push him backwards .

    Where the both guys are equally matched , the cavalry usually arrive & they tend to push forwards ..

    I do however think rolls should be banned .
    As its dangerous to guy being rolled .

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    I see this quite a lot. I hate it but do not feel that there is anything that I can do as it seems to have been accepted as a means of binding and clearing out.
    If I could make one change to the game it would be changing this interpretation across the global game.
    No2 would be pro refs enforcing players staying on their feet.

    The damage being done to the game at all levels by pro refs permitting anarchy at the breakdown is a common rant of mine..........
    Keep smiling!

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    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Crocodile rolls done properly aren't dangerous - I've done them on hard floors as a warm-up drill for wrestling. I guess it's accepted in the pro game because they're not so fussed about people staying on their feet and want to keep the ball moving - it clears people away from the ruck area, whereas collapsing downwards kills the ball and leads to a scrum.

    In the Netherlands, croc rolls are specifically banned for youth grades (as is squeezeball), implying that they're sanctioned for adult matches. Without further clarification, I'd allow them (safely); grabbing a shirt and dragging someone facefirst over the ruck I'd blow up.

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    Crocodile rolls done properly aren't dangerous - I've done them on hard floors as a warm-up drill for wrestling. I guess it's accepted in the pro game because they're not so fussed about people staying on their feet and want to keep the ball moving - it clears people away from the ruck area, whereas collapsing downwards kills the ball and leads to a scrum.

    In the Netherlands, croc rolls are specifically banned for youth grades (as is squeezeball), implying that they're sanctioned for adult matches. Without further clarification, I'd allow them (safely); grabbing a shirt and dragging someone facefirst over the ruck I'd blow up.
    Ben Ryan listed several career ending injuries that happened either from a roll, or after players have been forced into the ground and then had a joint trodden on .

    He was maintaining that it is a clear safety risk , and put up a good case

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    You can find very many more examples of career ending injuries from tackles, and more again from scrums. I doubt that's compelling evidence for a ban.

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    You can find very many more examples of career ending injuries from tackles, and more again from scrums. I doubt that's compelling evidence for a ban.
    It's already banned !
    Collapsing the ruck and going off your feet are against the Law .. partly to keep the game going, partly for Safety reasons

    Ben is arguing for enforcing the Law

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