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Thread: Collapsing Rucks

      
  1. #11
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    My point was, banning on safety grounds doesn't rely on a few journalistic anecdotes. Done properly, there's a lot less risk of head injury than conventional rucking, for example. The question may be whether it can reliably be coached and done properly, as is assumed for tackles, and whether referees can reliably identify a good from a bad roll. As to keeping play going, I think it's tolerated precisely because it doesn't stop the game, taking players away from the ball/ruck area.

    I understand that the laws in place don't allow them, but it's common practice and even implicitly sanctioned by some local rules. Either the law should change to explicitly ban/allow them, or there should be clear guidance to refs and coaches that the current laws are good and they're not allowed. There's no point having a law honoured only in the breach; at least here, I think it would be weird to see it penalised at any reasonable level of rugby.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    It would definitely be helpful if the Law corresponded to how refs are told to ref

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    It would definitely be helpful if the Law corresponded to how refs are told to ref
    But are we told to ref this way or do we just allow it as this is what's allowed on TV?

    No-one at any Society meeting I have ever been to has said this is allowed (although they've not said it's illegal either). Anyone else received specific guidance from their Society that this is acceptable and if so what was the justification?

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    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Here it's mentioned in the youth variations that it's banned for U18 rugby. If that's a variation, the implication is clear.

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    This is relevant https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...taken-15141825

    Personally I think the bigger safety issue is what seems to be a huge number unpenalised non-bind clearouts, and players flying into a ruck off their feet.

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    Here it's mentioned in the youth variations that it's banned for U18 rugby. If that's a variation, the implication is clear.
    Not to me ?

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    I suspect:
    If it's a specific variation for U18, then it implies that it is OK for over 18
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Oh right

    But 16.15

    Players must not:
    Pick the ball up with their legs.
    Intentionally collapse a ruck or jump on top of it.
    Intentionally step on another player.
    Fall over the ball as it is coming out of a ruck.
    Kick, or attempt to kick, the ball out of a ruck.

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    The IRB (as it was then) did issue a law clarification explicitly permitting body rolls in 2014, but as there have been many law changes since caution is probably advised using something so old.

    "In terms of ruck clearouts using “head rolls” and “body rolls”, this is not specifically referenced in Law. However, Law 10.4 (e) regarding dangerous play and misconduct should be applied to both the tackle and clear out... body rolls are permissible but head rolls should be penalised."

    source - https://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=...ification=1004

    Whilst there are a number of similar articles asserting croc rolls to be dangerous but I have yet to see any evidence other than specific incidents presented. The RFU are pretty hot on player welfare, and generally seem pretty data driven - neither the RFU Community Community Rugby Injury Surveillance and Prevention (CRISP) report or the much older 2011 world rugby reports call out croc rolls as a source of injury - in fact both barely mention rucks due to the much lower injury occurrence by contrast with tackler, tacked player and running. That said times change and the new tackle zone entry has definitely altered player behaviour at the ruck so a refresh would be very interesting to see.

    references:
    https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Docu...te_Neutral.pdf
    https://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/?documentid=78

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Are they dangerous ? Some might be, others aren't
    Are they in contravention of 16.15 ? Yes.

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