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Thread: Collapsing Rucks

      
  1. #21

    Referees in Australia
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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Our GMGs say this:

    Neck rolls
    • World Rugby is working to eliminate the practice of ‘neck grab and rolls’ in the act of cleaning out a player. Guidelines for referees are as follows:
    o PK = Neck grab, without twisting, which cleans out a player at the tackle or ruck
    o YC = Neck grab & roll (likely bringing the player to the ground)
    o RC = Neck grab & roll with a forceful ‘dumping action’ in bringing the player to the ground


    I infer from this that, provided there is no neck contact, crocodile rolls are OK.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Are they in contravention of 16.15 ? Yes.
    Except we have top level refs telling us that’s not how we should interpret 16.15.

    I have just been back to look at the 2014 laws that were in place when the clarification permitting them was issues - and this area of law really hasn’t changed that much, so perhaps the clarification still has applicability. “Body rolls are permissible head rolls should be penalised”.

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by mcroker View Post
    Except we have top level refs telling us that’s not how we should interpret 16.15.

    ”.
    Well, that's the same thing

    Bottom line : despite what 16.15 says, modern practice is to allow players to collapse rucks using any of a variety of techniques to do so. (not neck rolls, though)

    To the extent that in the Pro game collapsing rucks is pretty much the only thing they do ! Well, that and forming long human crouching chains to give the 9 lots of space to box kick
    Last edited by crossref; 08-01-19 at 07:01.

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    ....... Well, that and forming long human crouching chains to give the 9 lots of space to box kick
    which is bizarrely permitted in law and not just allowed by convention (as long as everyone is bound properly which frequently is not the case, something I warn about a lot but rarely penalise on the grounds of materiality)

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    My team were coached on croc rolls once. It resulted in our Vice Captain (at the time), dislocating his knee. I think they are dangerous but can see nothing specifically saying that they are banned.

    Question about binding, I can find no mention in the Laws of what constitutes a bind. I've been advised by refs and coaches that all that is needed is to be in contact with the player on the ground or a player already in the ruck (legally). What's anyone's thoughts for this.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    My team were coached on croc rolls once. It resulted in our Vice Captain (at the time), dislocating his knee. I think they are dangerous but can see nothing specifically saying that they are banned.
    that made me laugh

    far from being banned - they have been specifically designated legal
    https://laws.worldrugby.org/index.ph...04&language=EN


    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post

    Question about binding, I can find no mention in the Laws of what constitutes a bind. I've been advised by refs and coaches that all that is needed is to be in contact with the player on the ground or a player already in the ruck (legally). What's anyone's thoughts for this.
    15.7 A player must bind onto a team-mate or an opposition player. The bind must precede or be simultaneous with contact with any other part of the body.


    Defintions : Binding: Grasping another player’s body firmly between the shoulders and the hips with the whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.


    If Law 15 was enforced the game would look very different indeed!

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    My team were coached on croc rolls once. It resulted in our Vice Captain (at the time), dislocating his knee. I think they are dangerous but can see nothing specifically saying that they are banned.

    Question about binding, I can find no mention in the Laws of what constitutes a bind. I've been advised by refs and coaches that all that is needed is to be in contact with the player on the ground or a player already in the ruck (legally). What's anyone's thoughts for this.
    I interpret a bind as contact with the full arm, not just resting a handoff a shoulder. Can't recall exactly where I got the definition/requirement from.

  8. #28
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    It used to say (for rucks);


    A player joining a ruck must bind on a team-mate or an opponent, using the whole arm


    it doesn’t now

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Some refs penalise the following but I don't. Players joining a ruck by grabbing one of the standing legs of the oppositon and lifting it up so that the would-be jackaller falls to floor.? Its a very effective way to clear-out and works when the jackaller is much bigger than you.
    Is that OK or dangerous in your books ?

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Collapsing Rucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    It used to say (for rucks);


    A player joining a ruck must bind on a team-mate or an opponent, using the whole arm


    it doesn’t now
    but binding is defined as above - so it amounts to the same

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