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Thread: Advantage after a PT offence

      
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    Default Advantage after a PT offence

    A situation I didn't see, but was told about and thought quite interesting:

    Black make a break and about 5m from the goal line the BC commits the fullback and passes to a support player. The support player is pulled back early (and the infringing player was YC'd) so fails to catch the ball, but it is collected by a second support player who scores.

    The bloke telling me this was incensed that it wasn't a PT (it was close to the end of the game and black were 5 points down).

    So the question is: in principle, should it have been? Or was the referee right to play advantage and let the player score. The try was close to the touch line, so the PT was clearly a favourable outcome and had the obstructed player caught the ball he would have likely scored in a similar position.

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    A situation I didn't see, but was told about and thought quite interesting:

    Black make a break and about 5m from the goal line the BC commits the fullback and passes to a support player. The support player is pulled back early (and the infringing player was YC'd) so fails to catch the ball, but it is collected by a second support player who scores.

    The bloke telling me this was incensed that it wasn't a PT (it was close to the end of the game and black were 5 points down).

    So the question is: in principle, should it have been? Or was the referee right to play advantage and let the player score. The try was close to the touch line, so the PT was clearly a favourable outcome and had the obstructed player caught the ball he would have likely scored in a similar position.
    It would only be a penalty try if the try would have been scored in a more advantageous position but for the foul play. If by similar position, you mean similar to where the try was actually scored, then the ref made the correct decision.

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    So black were disadvantaged by the ref playing advantage.

    Arguably the ref should have blown his whistle immediately for the foul play and awarded a PT, before black could cloud the issue by scoring anyway.

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by colesy View Post
    It would only be a penalty try if the try would have been scored in a more advantageous position but for the foul play. If by similar position, you mean similar to where the try was actually scored, then the ref made the correct decision.
    That's why I mentioned the similar position.

    But as crossref points out, the crux of the issue black were disadvantaged by the referee playing advantage. Likewise black would have benefited by knocking on.

    I believe it all happened quickly enough that the ref didn't have chance to blow up before the try was scored, but I guess that's the other issue: a PT is now the most valuable score (even if you don't consider that it was before) so should advantage ever apply?
    Last edited by DocY; 10-10-18 at 16:10.

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Accepting that it happened very quickly

    A perfect performance would be that when black went over to score the ref would have paused for thought (think quick, blow slow) and then awarded a PT

    That would be a very good referee , I think, to work that out clearly in real time, on the pitch, in that last minute scenario
    Last edited by crossref; 10-10-18 at 16:10.

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Reminds me of a similar example: https://youtu.be/8GJ_T59lrbg?t=141

    If he doesn't get the ball down the conversion is in front of the posts (before the law changed), if he does, it's from the touchline!

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    I had a similar issue happen on the weekend. Red were chasing a kick into the 22, last blue player was getting nowhere and clearly tripped red taking him out the game. Another red player collects and they score in the corner.
    I blew up immediately after the trip before the ball was gathered by red, my initial reaction was that I'd butchered their try scoring advantage even though I had decided YC & Pen Try.
    What to you prioritise the process or the enjoyment for the player who could have scored they give it as cross ref suggests.

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    You go back to Law.

    What are the circumstances in which a PT can be awarded? Broadly, two:
    1. Denial of a try by foul play.
    2. Try being scored in a less advantageous than it would otherwise be scored by an act of foul play.

    In the OP, the try is scored where it would otherwise have been scored. It doesn't fit the definition of the Law.

    As for the advantage question: in the OP, play continued and the try was scored where it would otherwise have been scored. If you don't let play continue, then the reason for the try not being scored isn't the act of foul play, it's because of you
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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    I think you go back to Law 7 , Advantage .

    When the foul play occurs black is on a PT .
    There is no possibility to gain advantage , so advantage should not be played.

    It happened so quick that advantage was played by default.. but no advantage was gained (black did not get themselves to a position that was either tactically or territorially better than having the PK and therefore the PT

    So no advantage gained
    PT

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    When the foul play occurs black is on a PT .
    There is no possibility to gain advantage , so advantage should not be played.
    Try running that past the try scorer.

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