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Thread: Advantage after a PT offence

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I think you go back to Law 7 , Advantage .

    When the foul play occurs black is on a PT .
    There is no possibility to gain advantage , so advantage should not be played.

    PT
    i don't think under law you can be "on a PT" you have had foul play that may result in a penalty at least and perhaps escalation, but the advantage is being played from the foul play. You only get a PT if the foul play prevents a try being scored or scored in a less advantageous place. At that point awarding a PT is not giving an advantage, so you do not have to blow right away and stop the game and you would only award a PT if the score would have been in a better place.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    Ironically if there was no other player there to catch the ball it may well have been a Penalty Try.
    having a brain fart... had there been a player there but that player knocked on.. ?

    UPDATE: DOH! Clearly advantage didn't occur so back for initial offense and thus PT.

    Angels on pins moment ! : consider a two super fast speedy wingers (red) already scored three totally run away tries from own 22 with extreme pace that no oppo can come close too... IN own 22, one red winger makes a half break History shows he will score. Black trips him ... ball spills backwards and is picked up imediately by other winger who sets off - no one near him. In black 22 he trips up and knocks on.

    Advantage has been gained after all - circa 50-60m of territory. But... the intiial offense woluld have been a try albeit a 60-70m run in.

    PT? scrum?

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 11-10-18 at 12:10.

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I understand that argument

    But the other argument is

    After the foul play occured was there any way in which it was possible for black to gain an advantage ?

    The answer is No, black cannot gain advantage

    so advantage should not be played
    Awarding a PT is not advantage. Advantage is where play continues instead of being stopped for an offence. We call that playing advantage, and then either it is judged that advantage has been gained or no advantage and you go back to the offence and decide on the outcome. PT is, in my view, a decision on an outcome, not a decision on whether advantage has been gained.

    Black can gain an advantage from the offence by, for example, scoring a try. Which they did do. The ref then has to decide if they were prevented from scoring it in a better place by the foul play before he can award the PT, so he is actually looking for disadvantage there. if no disadvantage, then try and conversion attempt. If disadvantage and it was material, then PT and 7 points.

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    I don't think that is in accordance with the Law

    .If a team gains an advantage following an infringement by their opponents, the referee may allow play to continue in an effort to keep the game flowing.

    Advantage:
    May be tactical. The non-offending team is free to play the ball as they wish.
    May be territorial. Play has moved towards the offending team’s dead-ball line.
    May be a combination of tactical and territorial.
    Must be clear and real. A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not sufficient.
    Advantage ends when:

    The referee deems that the non-offending team has gained an advantage. The referee allows play to continue; or

    The referee deems that the non-offending team is unlikely to gain an advantage. The referee stops the game and applies the sanction for the infringement from which advantage was being played;


    All the bold bits suggest to me that Advantage should not be played .. it is impossible for black to gain any clear and real advantage

  5. #35
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    4 points down, 80 seconds to go, scenario we have above, PT or try in the corner, you could argue that try in the corner, that wins them the game and allows them to run down the clock with the kick is advantageous and secures them the match, at 6 points down the PT is most advantageous. So there can be an advantage to not immediately blowing your whistle, let it breathe and come back is what I was taught.

  6. #36

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Why is ", or scored in a more advantageous position" still present in 8.3?

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Because not everyone can kick conversions from the touchline at 100% accuracy.

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I don't think that is in accordance with the Law

    .If a team gains an advantage following an infringement by their opponents, the referee may allow play to continue in an effort to keep the game flowing.

    Advantage:
    May be tactical. The non-offending team is free to play the ball as they wish.
    May be territorial. Play has moved towards the offending team’s dead-ball line.
    May be a combination of tactical and territorial.
    Must be clear and real. A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not sufficient.
    Advantage ends when:

    The referee deems that the non-offending team has gained an advantage. The referee allows play to continue; or

    The referee deems that the non-offending team is unlikely to gain an advantage. The referee stops the game and applies the sanction for the infringement from which advantage was being played;


    All the bold bits suggest to me that Advantage should not be played .. it is impossible for black to gain any clear and real advantage
    All due respect mate, but you are missing the point. You can't (at least shouldn't) award a PT because the situation described does not meet the criteria for a PT.

    All this talk about whether advantage can be played or not is a bit bizarre.
    "There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - Dick Jeeps

  9. #39
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    IUnder the new Laws there are no circumstances that can unfold that lead to an outcome better than a PT
    However, the circumstances cannot unfold such that you can give a PT advantage.

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Advantage after a PT offence

    Quote Originally Posted by damo View Post
    All due respect mate, but you are missing the point. You can't (at least shouldn't) award a PT because the situation described does not meet the criteria for a PT.

    All this talk about whether advantage can be played or not is a bit bizarre.
    But then we are left with the fact that if you play advantage, the non offending team will be disadvantaged by that.
    Which is certainly bizarre

    It's an unintended consequence of the seven points PT , which is ripe for a clarification request IMO
    Last edited by crossref; 15-10-18 at 10:10.

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