Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Law 5: Time

      
  1. #1
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    13 Oct 18
    Posts
    8
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Law 5: Time

    This one has got our coaches scratching their heads and the consensus is the law is badly worded.


    Regarding the new (May 2018) law 7.c

    It says:


    • 7. A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless:
      • c. A penalty is kicked directly to touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.

    The law states ...'and' without the ball touching another player. It does not state 'or'.

    Therefore is it correct to say that the ball must be both tapped and played by another player before being licked into touch?

    Or should either instance be allowed, in which case the law is badly worded.

    I look forward to your thoughts.

    Ezra

  2. #2

    Referees in Wales
    tewdric's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Gwent
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    18 Sep 18
    Posts
    101
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    If you get rid of the double negative it is clear - from a penalty kick kicked directly into touch, the ball only becomes dead if it is first tapped or touches another player on the way.

  3. #3
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cambridge and St Neots
    Grade
    I am a Fan
    Join Date
    08 Mar 11
    Posts
    1,312
    Thanks (Received)
    18
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    The wording is correct - but very confusing.
    However, it passes the naive reading age test used by the IRB which merely counts the number of words in a sentence and the number letters in words.

  4. #4
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    13 Oct 18
    Posts
    8
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Camquin View Post
    The wording is correct - but very confusing.
    However, it passes the naive reading age test used by the IRB which merely counts the number of words in a sentence and the number letters in words.
    It cant be both correct and confusing, surely? It sounds like the 'and' should be replaced by 'or' as there are two options for killing the half from a PK.

  5. #5

    Referees in Wales
    tewdric's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Gwent
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    18 Sep 18
    Posts
    101
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    The wording is correct as both conditions have to be negative for the "unless" to apply.

  6. #6

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,395
    Thanks (Received)
    106
    Likes (Received)
    1478

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    Quote Originally Posted by the rushen View Post
    It cant be both correct and confusing, surely? It sounds like the 'and' should be replaced by 'or' as there are two options for killing the half from a PK.
    If you put "or", then you could kick directly to touch to end the half/game as long as the ball does not touch another player.

    A tap kick constitutes taking the penalty, so any subsequent kick is from open play. Putting it (directly) into touch therefore ends the half/game.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  7. #7

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    16,665
    Thanks (Received)
    127
    Likes (Received)
    1609

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    So some example s
    Blue PK
    Blue kick it directly into touch, line out
    Blue kick it indirectly into touch , half ends
    Blue kick , red get a hand to it just before it goes into touch .. half ends
    Blue tap it, then kick to touch , half ends

  8. #8
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cambridge and St Neots
    Grade
    I am a Fan
    Join Date
    08 Mar 11
    Posts
    1,312
    Thanks (Received)
    18
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    It is phrased and NOT(A) AND NOT(B) which equals NOT(A OR B)
    So it is correct - however, it is not clear.

    I believe the ball may bounce - as long the penalty kick ends up in touch before the ball is played, the line out will be taken.
    It the ball goes TIG or over the DBL then the half ends.

  9. #9

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    16,665
    Thanks (Received)
    127
    Likes (Received)
    1609

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Camquin View Post

    I believe the ball may bounce - as long the penalty kick ends up in touch before the ball is played, the line out will be taken.
    No.
    If the ball bounces, then time is up , end of the half.

    There is only a lineout if the ball goes directly to touch

  10. #10

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    12,144
    Thanks (Received)
    103
    Likes (Received)
    1219

    Default Re: Law 5: Time

    What it should say is:

    •7. A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless:
    •c. A penalty is kicked directly into touch

    (this next bit is in definitions: )
    Kicked directly into touch: The ball is kicked into touch without first landing on the playing area or touching a player or the referee.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •