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  1. #1
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    Default Rolling

    Hi Refs,

    I have a question regarding a "Double Movement." I had a try disallowed last Saturday. The ref told me that it was a double movement and had my momentum carried me over the line it would've been fine. Last season was my first season since High School and I thought that this had changed and that the attacking player could reach forward once even after his momentum had stopped.

    Here's the scenario,
    Attacking player gets the ball 1 meter from the line.
    Defender tackles and the attacking player goes to ground and lands on his back.
    Attacking player immediately rolls and places the ball on the ground., on the try line.

    Is this a try?

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Rolling

    I am not a ref.

    On teh basis these days players are clearly allowed to immediately shift position to place the ball post tackle I cant see an issue with what you did.

    I wasn't the guy with the whistle though. And I can see the point of rewarding the tackler's skill entirely.
    didds

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    Thumbs up Re: Rolling

    Didds - Thanks for that. Luckily it wasn't an important decision as my team got thumped lol. I was just confused as I didn't think it was a Double Movement issue. Thanks for your comment Didds - much appreciated.

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    Lightbulb Re: Rolling

    Hi and welcome to the forum.
    It sounds more like 8.2d than 8.2c to me.

    Were you brought down short of the try line or did it finish up in the ingoal?
    Law 8.2c. With the ball is tackled short of the goal line and the player’s momentum carries them in a continuous movement along the ground into the opponents’ in-goal, and the player is first to ground the ball.

    And
    8.2d. Is tackled near to the opponents’ goal line and the player immediately reaches out and grounds the ball.
    The issue here is immediately is down to the referee’s interpretation. It really has to be immediate. So if you are brought to ground on your back. To place the ball immediately, you will be stretching out and placing the ball while on your back. If you are already in the ingoal this isn’t going to be a problem. Otherwise for me, No try. Sounds like you have been tackled short of the try line. To place the ball on the tryline you needed to roll over, it seems. The better option might have been to place/push the ball back and give your teammates a second bite of the cherry.

    I know we see alot of tackled players rolling over to gain an extra meter on the TV. But it genuinely is not one of the options available to the ball-carrier once they have been brought to ground. See Law 14.7
    14.7. Tackled players must immediately:

    Make the ball available so that play can continue by releasing, passing or pushing the ball in any direction except forward. They may place the ball in any direction.
    No mention of rolling over(forward) before placing the egg. There’s that word immediately once again. Rolling over and then placing is NOT placing immediately.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 2 Weeks Ago at 14:11.
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    Default Re: Rolling

    Referee this season have been told to be strict on rolling

    If your body was still, and you reached .. try
    If you rolled yourself toward the try line and then reached ... PK

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    Default Re: Rolling

    In 8.2 d "reaches out" means with the arms only. You are not allowed to move your body forward.

    Double Movement is an unfortunate informal term. I have seen a player tackled with the ball hugged to his chest then lever himself forward with his knees to touch the goal line with the ball and claim it was only a single movement. PK.

    In your case some referees would allow you to roll sideways, but as L'Irlandais says, it is a risk.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Rolling

    Thanks for these comments. It was pretty fast tbh. From memory I landed on my back and reached out with ball in hand. Placed the ball down on the line and rolled on top of to make sure of the grounding.

    In a match we recently had our ref kept saying "your allowed one roll boys." Suggesting that one rotation is permitted to get the ball presented in the correct manner.

    My Mrs takes videos of our games, I can ask her to crop it and I can post the link here if you think it might help?

    I get frustrated about the whole not speaking to the refs, I only want to understand what the penalty was for and how to not make the same infringement again.

    Thanks for any input.

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    Default Re: Rolling

    As always would need to see it but:

    I would allow one roll and place if it was part of your natural momentum from the tackle.

    If, after the tackle, you came to a stop I would not allow a "fresh new" roll.

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    Default Re: Rolling

    It would be really great if you could post a video clip of the incident. But bear in mind, you still have to adapt to the man in the middle, even if the referees on RRF don’t agree with his decision. That said, brought to ground on your back, for me means, I will award the try if you manage to place the ball on the tryline, while still on your back. Seen it done, it is rewarding good awareness of the proximity of the tryline.

    Like the match referee, I do tolerate tackled players turning their backs to the opposition, to better present the ball toward their own camp. A player safety issue in my books, a boot in the back, hurts less than one right in the face. If you want to conceed 50cm to protect the ball that’s fine. But rolling over toward the opposition tryline is a no-no. Rugby is a thinking man’s game, no soft shortcut gains in ground like that.

    Stick at it, if you get the captain’s armband one day, you will be allowed speak to the match referee. Only you still won’t be permitted to dispute his decisions. He already explained what the penalty was for; a double mouvement.
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 2 Weeks Ago at 14:11.
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    Default Re: Rolling

    I agree . Half roll backwards to present is ok
    Roll forwards = PK

    I don't really believe in momentum rolling . After the first PK it somehow never happens again

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