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Thread: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

      
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    Default Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    One of those decisions in a game where you doubt yourself!

    Blue BC is wrapped up by red defender, other players quickly join in and 'maul' is called. Blue manages to get their knees to ground to immediate cries from his side that the red player must release him. Red player quickly releases the BC (I had said nothing), he gets to his feet still carrying the ball and runs towards the posts. I ping him for not releasing the ball in the tackle.

    It turned out this, trying to get to ground and gain a PK was a clear tactic by Blue to overcome tunrovers. It was cute but the execution was not as clever!

    My reading of this situation is that in a maul if the BC can get their knees to ground they have been tackled and the defender becomes the tackler and must release the player straight away; at the same time the tackled player must release the ball and make it immediately available; the defender can re-engage to get the ball (from their goal post side) - nice in theory but tough in atight maul situation. If the ball is not immediatley available turnover and scrum to defending side.

    My sympathy was with the defenders. In a tight maul it can be hard to know that the player you were holding up to gain a turnover has managed to get a knee to ground.

    In the game, I used Blue team's failure to make the ball immediately available a reason to award turnovers consistently.


    But was I right?

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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    I think you were wrong, a maul can’t become a tackle, they don’t have to release. If the ball goes to ground a maul could become a ruck, but don’t think this fits your description. If his knees are on the ground it’s still a maul, although I would be thinking of quickly blowing it as unsuccessful and ordering a scrum. Technically, if they all let go of the ball carrier, even though they don’t have to, then it’s a successful maul and play on although it looks wrong

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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    Agree with Flish. Once you call 'maul' forget about tackle laws. If he gets a knee to the ground and the maul remains stationary, tell the SH that the maul has stopped moving. If it doesn't start moving again in 5 secs, blow it up as unplayable.

    Note: don't be too quick to call 'maul'. If it is still a dynamic gaggle and likely to go to ground any time soon, treat it as a tackle.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 1 Week Ago at 23:11.
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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    ... Note: don't be too quick to call 'maul'. If it is still a dynamic gaggle and likely to go to ground any time soon, treat it as a tackle.
    Which is what they mean when you hear the expression “let it breathe” ie even though you may technically have a Maul, for the sake of continuity don’t call it a Maul straight away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie View Post
    .... It turned out this, trying to get to ground and gain a PK was a clear tactic by Blue to overcome tunrovers.
    I don’t think they were going to ground to gain a PK; they were trying to get to ground to create a Ruck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie View Post
    .... My reading of this situation is that in a maul if the BC can get their knees to ground they have been tackled and the defender becomes the tackler and must release the player straight away ...
    This is where you are getting confused Gracie. Once you have a Maul you can’t have a tackle.

    If the ball carrier (BC) is held by a couple of opponents (but no team mates) then you haven’t yet got a Maul and the BC will try going to ground because it could still be a tackle, but once the Maul has formed (ie BC, and at least 1 opponent and 1 team mate – all on their feet and bound on) after letting it “breathe” a bit it’s too late for the BC to claim a tackle. So even if the BC gets to ground, there is no obligation on the opponents to release anyone; in fact releasing is the last thing they want to do as they want the turnover ball. Makes sense?
    Last edited by Taff; 1 Week Ago at 00:11.

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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    The perfect steer is once its called a maul no tackle can take place; what was so wierd is that the Blue team kept screaming for a penalty because their BC's knees were on the ground and to address Taff's point, the BC made no attempt to get the ball to ground, just their knees!

    It was one of those once in a blue moon "am I having a senior moment?' occasions because they were so vociferous I ended up questioning myself - turns out I should have trusted my instincts!

    Thanks guys





    I don’t think they were going to ground to gain a PK; they were trying to get to ground to create a Ruck

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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    also be wary of the ball carrier's team mate/s who try to "assist" the ball carrier to get to ground by dragging the whole thing down. Actually illegal but not always penalised.

    9. All other players in a maul must endeavour to stay on their feet.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    I don’t think they were going to ground to gain a PK; they were trying to get to ground to create a Ruck.

    whereas whilst in a parallel universe that may have been the outcome i think the reason the BC went to ground (grounded a knee) was a mistaken belief this created a tackle and the "tackler" has to release the BC - from where he can then play the ball as he feels fit/able (eg present for ruck, pass to another player etc.

    clearly Blue hadn't really thought this through because they then obviously believed there wasn't a tackle despite tackle law being the crux of their tactic.

    Meanwhile back in our universe...
    didds

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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    also be wary of the ball carrier's team mate/s who try to "assist" the ball carrier to get to ground by dragging the whole thing down. Actually illegal but not always penalised.

    9. All other players in a maul must endeavour to stay on their feet.

    I don;t disagree but I do note that says "stay on THEIR feet"

    Sp if they do stay on their feet but still drag the BC down presumably this law has not been broken anyway.

    didds

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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I don;t disagree but I do note that says "stay on THEIR feet"

    Sp if they do stay on their feet but still drag the BC down presumably this law has not been broken anyway.

    didds
    The danger of a literal reading of the laws.

    Back to the question. Once it is a maul tackles are not longer a consideration. Yes, don't rush to call it a maul but don't be daft either If you have 6 or 7 plays bound on and the (2V1) criteria is met . Why be wrong in law by pretending it is not a maul?

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    Default Re: Maul - BC Knees Go to Ground

    And

    11: Players must not:

    a: Intentionally collapse a maul
    typo
    Last edited by Camquin; 1 Week Ago at 10:11. Reason: typo

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