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Thread: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

      
  1. #1
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    Default Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    Incident from last weekend.
    Blue v Red and it is a Blue scrum.
    Red SH started in usual place, next to scrum and Blue SH. After the ball goes in, Red SH then moves to back, behind his Number-8's hindmost foot.
    Cue Blue SH pointing at him and appealing to me. He appealed something like "Sir, he cannot come round the open-side". In fact, he stayed behind his number 8's feet, so I think he was just firing a warning at the Red-SH.
    Did this law get changed in 2018 ?

    From the lawbook:
    30 . Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:

    Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum or
    Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or
    Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.


    So that implies the Red SH can NOT run round to the other side of his scrum so long as he keeps both feet behind the ball - right ?

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    The opposing SH can't go round the other side of the scrum and follow the ball.

    If he wants to move back (ie he isn't following the ball through the scrum) then his new offside line is the hindmost foot - and than runs the whole width of the pitch.

    That's how I understand it anyway.

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    Once the Red SH retires to back foot , he can move sideways, open or blind, but can't come forward again , as his offside line is now the back foot

    Blue SH needs a warning for shouting at you , and if it's not the first time a PK as well .

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    CTPE, the law bit about permanently retiring 5m is totally unnecessary as the SH will have been onside for the last 5m of that retiral.

    You are right that the SH has to go back to the hind foot if he does not remain close to the scrum on the putting in side. I saw a couple of SH being told that by the refs in the internationals at the weekend.

    Agree with CR that you should have corked the blue SH

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    CTPE, the law bit about permanently retiring 5m is totally unnecessary as the SH will have been onside for the last 5m of that retiral.
    But once he is back 5m he cannot come forward again. Why that is necessary I do not know - probably a hangover from past Laws. Prime candidate for simplification!
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    Quote Originally Posted by chbg View Post
    But once he is back 5m he cannot come forward again. Why that is necessary I do not know - probably a hangover from past Laws. Prime candidate for simplification!
    But as long as he goes back only 4.9m he can come forward again!

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinky View Post
    But as long as he goes back only 4.9m he can come forward again!
    He can't go back 4.9m and be legal - law says either ON the offside line at hindmost foot, or back 5m - stops them shuttling to and fro I guess.

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    oniy we know thats not right either... otherwise the s/h couldn't pop around the other side ON the line of the back foot to defend )as is sometimes seen) because they would have to have progressed PAST the back foot to get there.

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    We have all seen the SH going to the other side of the scrum; but if you are going to apply what would seem to be the intent of the law, shouldn't we be managing the SH to stay on the correct side and penalising them if they don't (obviously applying materiality and the level of the game being played when making a decision)?

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    Default Re: Where can the non-throwing SH go after ball thrown-in ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elpablo73 View Post
    We have all seen the SH going to the other side of the scrum; but if you are going to apply what would seem to be the intent of the law, shouldn't we be managing the SH to stay on the correct side and penalising them if they don't (obviously applying materiality and the level of the game being played when making a decision)?
    But they are allowed to go to the other side of the scrum as long as they remain behind the back foot. If there is a law saying the offside line is the back foot, then there is no need for a law saying the offside line is 5m behind the back foot.

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