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Thread: Law check - scrum turnover

      
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    Default Law check - scrum turnover

    I've had several incidents recently when if the ball is turned over in the scrum (i.e. won by the non putting in team) the now defending team immediately rush up beyond the 5m offside line prior to the ball emerging from the scrum. TO me they are all offside as the ball has not exited the scrum yet, and BOTH sides should be back 5m until the ball emerges.

    I can't find anything in the law that says otherwise but I've penalised at least 3 teams for this offence this season, several on multiple occasions as they just don't like to listen to me!

    Am I right?

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    Scrum offside law says all non participating players must stay 5m behind their own back foot until the scrum is over.

    So you are correct to penalise the backs creeping up.

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    You are, and if it's multiple occasions you might find a card sharpens their attention somewhat...

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post

    Am I right?
    Yes.

    But maybe it's something that you need to be prepared for and to manage better.
    Be alert and ready to change your position to focus (manage) the new defending back line.

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    Sounds to me if he is picking it up - which suggests nothing wrong with his position.
    He does not say if he warns first - but it seems the players are not listening and are repeatedly offending.
    Players can be their own worst enemies.

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    This situation isn't one where you warn the first time

    They are supposed to be 5m back
    They ALL come up the back foot, so they are ALL of them a whole 5m offside

    Thats a clear PK

    And of course a word of explanation to make sure they understand
    Last edited by crossref; 18-11-18 at 08:11.

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    I tend to find that a lot with offsides at LO or scrum time. It’s usually the whole back line (well, 10, 12, 13 at least) who offend, either egregiously as in the case of scrum turnover, or just all creeping up a yard or two at LO before the ball is out.

    You never catch them all the time as there are so many things to look out for in the game, but I keep an eye out where I can!

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    Perhaps I was not clear. I was thinking more of calling "Hold Red" as soon as Blue win the ball and red are still 5m back.
    Of course if they don't listen and still come up it is a penalty.
    If they keep doing it, especially if they are also offside on Blue put ins, then it could even become a card.

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    I TJd a few weeks ago at a junior age grade game, where the players are old enough to know what they are doing on the whole

    The ref asked me to mark 10m and 5m at LO and scrums (which I'd do anyway FWTW - but it meant the ref was on the ball as well and it gave credence to me doing so etc).

    Both sets of backs would set up fine - on the whole! - but as son as the ball was live (especially at scrums) both sets would encroach. I gave some verbals ("stay onside guys" etc) although I apprecisate this was really beyond my remit I appreciate, but done in the "i'm trying to help you not get PKd" or whatever). To his credit the ref did chat to me at half time and say he wasn't pinging anything as he didn't think it was material, which is fair enough.

    My point here is that it seems endemic. I know WE don't coach our squad to creep. The oppo literally crept rather than rushed up together and ate ALL the space so if they are coached to do it (and FTR I don;t think they are/werte) it was a very suvbtle coaching to cheat :-)

    I just think its natural for backs to do it.

    didds

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    Default Re: Law check - scrum turnover

    Losing possession in a scrum is quite unusual.. I think they partly go into ruck mode, where on a turnover you all rush up to the back foot.

    Or perhaps they are cheating, to see if they can get away with it :-)

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