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Thread: Inadvertent touch down

      
  1. #91

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    I agree completely with the sequence of events as you describe

    But perhaps it did cross his radar, but it was unimportant as he interprets the whole sequence as a player going to ground to pick up the ball, and picking up up the ball does not count as grounding it .

    Picking up a ball is not grounding it. A player may pick up the ball in in-goal and ground it elsewhere in in-goal.


    Anyway .. I guess we have said all there is to say
    Last edited by crossref; 11-01-19 at 13:01.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I agree completely with the sequence of events as you describe
    Excellent.

    But perhaps it did cross his radar, but it was unimportant as he interprets the whole sequence as a player going to ground to pick up the ball, and picking up up the ball does not count as grounding it .
    The actions are distinct and since you agree with Phil E's description, you accept that the grounding happened first. The rest is in your imagination.
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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    But always when you pick up the ball, there will a moment , before you pick it up, when you are holding the ball, and it is in contact with the ground.
    That's why we have the special law to tell us it doesn't count as a touchdown.

    If the whole sequence had been in goal , would you allow it as a pick up ? Yes, surely ?

  4. #94

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But always when you pick up the ball, there will a moment , before you pick it up, when you are holding the ball, and it is in contact with the ground.
    That's why we have the special law to tell us it doesn't count as a touchdown.

    If the whole sequence had been in goal , would you allow it as a pick up ? Yes, surely ?
    But in this scenario he gathered the ball off the ground, lifted it off the ground, and then placed it back on the ground.
    So your scenario doesn't fit the one we are discussing.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    But always when you pick up the ball, there will a moment , before you pick it up, when you are holding the ball, and it is in contact with the ground.
    That is why they had to specifically say that picking up is NOT grounding. The significant fact is that that picking up can be done without downward pressure.

    If the whole sequence had been in goal , would you allow it as a pick up ? Yes, surely ?
    Definitely not. See Phil E's description:
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    He then turned onto his front to get to his feet, and in doing so he clearly placed the ball onto the ground (still in his possession).
    At that point the ball was dead.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    But the point here is he was not picking up a ball that was in isolation in the in goal area. I agree picking up a stationary or moving ball in the in goal is not a touchdown (and annoyed a team earlier this year when they did just this, ball kicked into in goal, player picked it up, I allowed play on, for some reason he threw the ball away and opponents scooped up to touch down and score a try. Coach was furious, it was great when I replayed it on my GoPro later and saw clearly there was no grounding ).

    In this scenario he either touches the ball down in the in goal, or carries ball already in contact with the ground over the dead ball line while it remains in contact with the ground. In both instances you would award a try so in both instances you should award an attacking scrum for carrying into in goal and touching down. Now if he had carried the ball above the ground into in goal, dropped it (not knock on) and then picked it up I agree we have no grounding, or if he slid over the dead ball line with the ball not in contact with the ground at any time we have no grounding, but that is not the scenario described.
    Last edited by Zebra1922; 11-01-19 at 18:01.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    I think what happens is clear, the ball was grounded in the in-goal area scrum 5m to the attacking team. What we are missing here is the human error element. I played in a game once where having scored a try I was looking to pick the ball up so I could convert and meanwhile an opposition player picked the ball up, ran the length of the field and touched down. The referee awarded the try to the opposition and there was then a period of 10-15 minutes where we reconstructed what had actually happened. In this case I suspect the normally excellent referee was confused by an abnormal action by the defender (I mean who grounds the ball in his own in goal area and then tries to play out?) and allowed play to continue. With the opposition scoring so quickly what was he supposed to do? Review the decision and award the side who'd scored a try a 5m scrum? Frankly he looks to me like he took the path of least resistance and awarded the try and all credit to Northants who didnt complain. Wrong decision though

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    .

    In this scenario he either touches the ball down in the in goal, or carries ball already in contact with the ground over the dead ball line while it remains in contact with the ground. In both instances you would award a try

    .
    Normally that would be what was intended

    But not necessarily .. see post 29

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Out of interest, can I get a list of situations where "that wasn't his intent" will be viable for a referee to deviate from law?
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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Out of interest, can I get a list of situations where "that wasn't his intent" will be viable for a referee to deviate from law?
    here's four that everyone seemed to agree with
    http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread....dvertant+stuff

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