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Thread: Inadvertent touch down

      
  1. #111

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    While «*gather*» and «*pick up*» may be synonyms in English, in the LoTG they describe two distinctly different actions. You are reading to much into the choice of words, we have already seen how poorly written the Laws are. Far more likely they choose a different word, because they were describing a different action:

    If you drop on the ball on the field of play it’s 13.1b

    Do the same thing in the in-goal and it’s 21.1 b
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 4 Days Ago at 14:01.
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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    In your interpretation Law 21.2 would read gathering instead of picking up.
    Gathering (nope) a ball is not grounding it. A player may gather (don’t think so)the ball in in-goal and ground it elsewhere in in-goal.
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  3. #113
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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    For me I also found myself in direct agreement with Healey, as distasteful as that was, I saw downward pressure while taking the ball into in-goal and therefore ball dead.

    While discussing intent it might be worth considering that the intent for the 30 players is not to comply with the law but to win the game. Conning referees by any possible method is part of the skill set professional players develop.

    I assessed his intent as not to ground but that is mute as the carrying into goal made it dead. His immediate reaction to get to his feet was likely based on an intent to avoid a 5m scrum he got away with that but they conceded the try anyway.

  4. #114

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    How long did the leggings thread run?
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  5. #115

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    How long did the leggings thread run?
    For as long as people were enjoying posting on it ?

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by BikingBud View Post
    For me I also found myself in direct agreement with Healey, as distasteful as that was, I saw downward pressure while taking the ball into in-goal and therefore ball dead.

    While discussing intent it might be worth considering that the intent for the 30 players is not to comply with the law but to win the game. Conning referees by any possible method is part of the skill set professional players develop.

    I assessed his intent as not to ground but that is mute as the carrying into goal made it dead. His immediate reaction to get to his feet was likely based on an intent to avoid a 5m scrum he got away with that but they conceded the try anyway.
    There's a lot about intent in that analysis.

    But bottom line ..
    .he intended to pick it up
    .he did pick it up

    Picking it up is not grounding it

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    In your interpretation Law 21.2 would read gathering instead of picking up.
    Gathering (nope) a ball is not grounding it. A player may gather (don’t think so)the ball in in-goal and ground it elsewhere in in-goal.
    I You are saying that a loose ball can't be picked up using that technique? I think that's a stretch ... It is pretty much the gold standard coached way to pick up a loose ball, isn't it ?
    Last edited by crossref; 3 Days Ago at 18:01.

  8. #118

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I don't think that's the intention of the law -- I think the law has a simple and clear purpose : picking it up is not grounding it.

    I think you are putting too much weight on the question of intent, and micro analysis.
    ???? I am denying the need to infer that intent is required. You are the one introducing it.

    It's actualyl more simple
    - did he put it down? It's a grounding
    - did he pick it up? It's not a grounding

    Here the ball was on the ground and on one action he dived to the floor, gathered the ball and got up.
    He was picking it up
    In one act he grounded the ball and then picked it up. The ball was dead, so the pick-up was too late.

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I You are saying that a loose ball can't be picked up using that technique? I think that's a stretch ... It is pretty much the gold standard coached way to pick up a loose ball, isn't it ?
    In the field of play you can fall on the ball and then pop it up to a teammate, or get up with it yourself. In the in-goal that is not the case. If you ground it the ball is dead, whether you meant to do that or not.

    AIUI you are arguing that although he did in fact ground the ball, that doesn't matter because he then picked it up. (If he didn't ground it, we would not be needing this apparently interminable discussion.)
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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    ????

    In the field of play you can fall on the ball and then pop it up to a teammate, or get up with it yourself. In the in-goal that is not the case. If you ground it the ball is dead, whether you meant to do that or not.

    .)
    Well that's the nub of it, isn't it?
    I think you have simply made that up, and it's not supported in Law
    I think you can go to ground and pick up the ball, and even though that does involve pressing down on the ball, it's not a groundinfg because 21.2 expressly says : it's not a grounding if you are picking it up.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    But he's not picking it up as the first action.

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