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Thread: Inadvertent touch down

      
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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Some one has already said it, Empathy. I quite often see discussions on here after a decision which a ref has made where both sets of players etc were happy and the game continued. We don't need to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

    I do see the point in the original question though. I think the original poster was asking effectively "should advantage be played and when Wasps scored should ot have gone back to a scrum". Someone has answered this with "if the ball goes dead you can't play advantage. So to me it seems everything is cleared up.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Advantage is not relevant here, there was no offence to play advantage from

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Yes, but where does it say that a defending player sliding over the line with momentum is a grounding ?

    Because the law book does say that for an attacker, but not for a defender

    Which is precisely why we are having this discussion !
    The law book is never going to give every example of each possible scenario for that law. In this case it is clearly carried into the in goal by defending team and touched down (in the same way you would call it a try if an attacker did this) therefore under 21.6 its a scrum 5 attacking ball.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    The law book is never going to give every example of each possible scenario for that law. In this case it is clearly carried into the in goal by defending team and touched down (in the same way you would call it a try if an attacker did this) therefore under 21.6 its a scrum 5 attacking ball.
    Well that's the point , it was neither carried in, nor touched down !

    The scenario is someone sliding in, through momentum, with ball sliding along the ground.

    Now, I can perfectly see the argument that it's a 5m scrum, but it doesn't match the language you use

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    I don’t seee the difference. If you are sliding along the ground with the ball also on the ground, by nature you are continuously touching the ball down. I’d you disagree, hw do you explain the difference in treatment between an attack it player (touch down, try) and a defending player (in your view not touch down and play on) For exactly the same action in the same part of the field?

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Well it's about intention, isn't it ?

    When you pick up a ball on the ground it doesn't count as a touchdown..

    And it wasn't the same action, he slid in and leapt to his feet almost before he had stopped sliding
    Last edited by crossref; 07-01-19 at 16:01.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Well it's about intention, isn't it ?
    Why?

    When you pick up a ball on the ground it doesn't count as a touchdown..
    Picking up the ball necessarily involves putting hand(s) under the ball as your first contact, thereby avoiding any downward pressure.
    And it wasn't the same action, he slid in and leapt to his feet almost before he had stopped sliding
    He was holding the ball when it made contact with the ground over the line.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Key question - if it was an attacking player would you award a try? If the answer is yes then this must be a 5m scrum, attacking ball. Otherwise you have inconsistent treatment of the same scenario between attackers and defenders.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    Key question - if it was an attacking player would you award a try? If the answer is yes then this must be a 5m scrum, attacking ball. Otherwise you have inconsistent treatment of the same scenario between attackers and defenders.
    I think you might not --

    Imagine an attacker is not diving and he's upright when he is tap tackled 3m from the line.
    -- he hits the ground heavily, it's a wet day, and he can't help sliding into the in goal..
    -- all in the same movement he gets straight back to his feet and runs over to score under the posts.

    wouldn't it be somewhat jobsworth to say "sorry mate, the ball touched the ground and you inadvertently scored in the corner" ?

    To make it even more similar, add in two defenders who definitely don't think he scored, both trying to grab him to stop him getting any closer to the posts
    Last edited by crossref; 07-01-19 at 20:01.

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    Default Re: Inadvertent touch down

    If you pick up the ball, in goal, you are at some point holding the ball which is in contact with the ground, which is a grounding, sliding in is the same in essence. If you are being absolutely clinically correct then it’s not possible to pick up the ball in goal, because you ground it. By judging on intent we allow the players to chose what to do, eg pick the ball up and score at the other end, the question is more do we offer them a get out of jail free card if they try to do something else (no intent to ground it), and then cock it up. I think not, certainly at this level (kids maybe, do not want to punish them, and their decision making skills aren’t as good).

    Which is why we have 22.2, I think he just ‘picked it up’ .... at pace!
    Last edited by Flish; 07-01-19 at 20:01.

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