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Thread: Maul to ruck

      
  1. #1

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    Default Maul to ruck

    I've looked at old threads and the laws but still can't make my mind up.
    Red catch and drive from line out 10m out. I call maul.
    Black eventually get defence sorted and stop forward momentum at 5m line.
    Before I say anything red realise the momentum has stopped and ball carrier goes to ground and places ball on floor, where I can see it clearly.
    Red scrum half about to pick it up but bodies from both sides collapse , not deliberately and ball is now unplayable.
    I whistle say ball is unplayable in a ruck. Scrum red.
    Black ask the question, politely "you can't turn a maul into a ruck sir"
    I say you can and stick to my decision and we move on.
    Whilst I hadn't called ruck, for me a ruck had been created.
    Thoughts please and any law clarification references?
    Ciaran Trainor

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    I think that : technically speaking a maul can become a ruck, but nothing good ever happens to a referee who allows that to occur !

    A maul ends and play continues when:
    The ball or ball-carrier leaves the maul.
    The ball is on the ground.
    The ball is on or over the goal line.

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    One problem would be where the ball is located. Usually at the back of a maul, so when the ball/plater goes to ground his fellow players are ahead of him, therefore players from both sides are in contact on their feet ahead of the ball not over it.

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    I would call that a collapsed & unplayable maul - turnover scrum. Red, get it out quicker next time.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    For me the only way I will generally "allow" a maul become a ruck is is the BC goes to ground with the mass of the "Maul / ruck still on their feet and the players drive over (Safely) and the ball is presented "immediately".

    Once a maul hits the deck I want to see the ball avaialbe or it is turnover ball.

    So I would say yourscenrio sounds wrong. But I was not there!

    Call what you see!

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    For me the only way I will generally "allow" a maul become a ruck is is the BC goes to ground with the mass of the "Maul / ruck still on their feet and the players drive over (Safely) and the ball is presented "immediately".

    !
    Which for me is not a ball becoming a ruck, it's just a mail ending , and ball coming out ?

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    For me, the only realistic way a maul can become a ruck is if the ball is dropped and players start playing the ball with their feet. I don't think I've ever seen it happen
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    .... Whilst I hadn't called ruck, for me a ruck had been created. Thoughts please and any law clarification references?
    My feeling is that if we are looking at a Ruck, then we treat it as a Ruck. Why complicate things?

    The one thing we need to be clear on though is, is it a Ruck or a collapsed Maul, because the restarts are different. It sounds to me that you had a short lived Ruck.
    Last edited by Taff; 15-01-19 at 10:01.

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    The laws specifically allow the ball carrier to go to ground in a maul and dictate that the maul ends when the ball is on the ground. From the description in the OP, in principle, I am in agreement with ctrainor and Taff providing I can see a clear separation in time between the ball being placed on the floor and the formation collapsing ie I am happy that the ball carrier taking the ball to ground hasn’t created the collapse.

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    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    the short answer is you can turn a maul into a ruck - we've been over this before - as the ball being on the ground ends the maul - and a ball on the ground with players closing round it is a ruck. For me the key thing is whether this has been clear and obvious enough to justify thinking about a ruck phase of play as the outcome for any unplayable is different. If you think it a ruck has formed, then you have to ask why the ball cannot come out - no one other than the 9 should be thinking of handling it, and then you are into unsuccessful end to a ruck, which will be ball to side going forward.

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