Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 45

Thread: Maul to ruck

      
  1. #21

    ELRA/Club Referee


    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    08 Nov 18
    Posts
    120
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    35

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    You'd give what you normally do for a player who dives on a ball emerging from a ruck.

  2. #22

    ELRA/Club Referee


    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    08 Nov 18
    Posts
    120
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    35

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    I've absolutely loved reading OB's post on pre1992 law. I remember training drills on Tuesday and Thursday evenings duringthe late 80s where we used to spend hours practicing carrying the ball intocontact, dropping a shoulder and driving into the opposition. Turn around andpresent, at which point the first two members of your team arrived, linked armsbehind your body and drove because if you got the forward momentum then you gotthe put in at the subsequent scrum when the mob collapsed. Absolutely standardpractice.

    Returning to the point however I also remember being told byan instructor on my Referee's course that a maul could never become a ruck. Outof deference for his experience I didn't argue the point. But he was wrong(and, as was mentioned on another thread recently, there's a law clarificationfrom 2011 to prove it).


  3. #23

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,779
    Thanks (Received)
    139
    Likes (Received)
    1765

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    But nobody questions it. Every team I know accepts that if there's a maul and ball gets to ground (and all the other conditions for a ruck exist) then we have a ruck. The only thing that can catch us out is if a BC goes to ground but can't get the ball to the ground, then we have a collapsed maul and not a ruck; and the restart is different.
    They will question it if it ends up being unplayable and you award a scrum .. see the OP

    I think that if you announce a maul has become a ruck its a confusing call

  4. #24

    ELRA/Club Referee


    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    08 Nov 18
    Posts
    120
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    35

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    Surely you cant be suggesting that, even if all the criteria for a ruck are met in accordance with the laws, that you should ignore that and call what you believe the average player can understand because he's not bright enough to realise anything different?

  5. #25

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,779
    Thanks (Received)
    139
    Likes (Received)
    1765

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    Surely you cant be suggesting that, even if all the criteria for a ruck are met in accordance with the laws, that you should ignore that and call what you believe the average player can understand because he's not bright enough to realise anything different?
    Give me a more specific scenario and I will tell you what I will do

    But generally speaking a referee can certainly come a cropped by by being too focused on arcane law situations, yes.

    I remember WB saying at a meeting something along the lines that if there is a decision that is plausible, that all 30 players would broadly speaking expect you to give ... It's most likely best to give it .

    Even if you know of an obscure law that suggests the opposite

    (That's a rule of thumb not a commandment )

  6. #26

    ELRA/Club Referee


    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    08 Nov 18
    Posts
    120
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    35

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    I chose the phrase 'all the criteria for a ruck are met in accordance with the laws' because it was specific.

    Otherwise I absolutely agree, do what is expected.

    Which arcane/obscure law are you referring to? I assumed we werediscussing law 16.16b

  7. #27

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,779
    Thanks (Received)
    139
    Likes (Received)
    1765

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    If we are discussing the scenario in the OP to me that sounds like a maul ending unsuccessfully.
    Or do you have a different scenario in mind ?

  8. #28

    ELRA/Club Referee


    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    08 Nov 18
    Posts
    120
    Thanks (Received)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    35

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    To me it sounds like a ruck ending unsuccessfully but I guess that’s why we love the game. We can see what’s written but don’t interpretate it the same way

  9. #29

    Referees in Wales
    Taff's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Llanelli District
    Grade
    WRU Level 2
    Join Date
    23 Aug 09
    Posts
    6,915
    Thanks (Received)
    34
    Likes (Received)
    338

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    To me it sounds like a ruck ending unsuccessfully ...
    Same for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    ... Red catch and drive from line out 10m out. I call maul. Black eventually get defence sorted and stop forward momentum at 5m line. Before I say anything red realise the momentum has stopped and ball carrier goes to ground and places ball on floor, where I can see it clearly. Red scrum half about to pick it up but bodies from both sides collapse , not deliberately and ball is now unplayable.
    If Black want the throw in, then they have to stop that ball getting to ground and forming a ruck. It came from a maul, so even if they failed to keep the BC from going to ground, there was was no requirement for them to release either the BC or the ball. It then becomes a collapsed maul and they get the turnover.
    Last edited by Taff; 15-01-19 at 19:01.

  10. #30

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    17,779
    Thanks (Received)
    139
    Likes (Received)
    1765

    Default Re: Maul to ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    To me it sounds like a ruck ending unsuccessfully but I guess that’s why we love the game. We can see what’s written but don’t interpretate it the same way
    Fair enough.
    It doesn't happen very often I think, but on those infrequent
    occasions when you decide a maul has become a ruck I would advise a loud shout so that everyone realises what has happened and can play accordingly.

    For instance would you now allow body rolls and similar techniques to clear out (which are allowed in a ruck but in a maul would be collapsing)?

    (I just think a maul becoming a ruck is rife with complications, confusion and potential gotchas)
    Last edited by crossref; 15-01-19 at 19:01.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •