Maul to ruck

[crossref]

Same for me.


If Black want the throw in, then they have to stop that ball getting to ground and forming a ruck. It came from a maul, so even if they failed to keep the BC from going to ground, there was was no requirement for them to release either the BC or the ball. It then becomes a collapsed maul and they get the turnover.

Now that sounds really confusing. It's become a ruck but if it collapses you will ref it as a maul again ?

[ChrisR]

Dickie E got it right in his posts #4 and #7.

If player with the ball goes to ground and the ball is not immediately available the it's an unsuccessful end to the maul (see the OP) and a turnover.

If the ball is forced to the ground and all players stay on their feet then the maul has ended successfully. It is now a ruck.

That it rarely happens (but not never) is more of a coaching issue. I can make a case for it.

[Taff]

Now that sounds really confusing. It's become a ruck but if it collapses you will ref it as a maul again ?

No, I reckon we have to decide if we are looking at a collapsed maul (and referee it as a maul, with turnover ball if it ends unsuccessfully) or a perfectly good ruck. It can't be both.

[crossref]

No, I reckon we have to decide if we are looking at a collapsed maul (and referee it as a maul, with turnover ball if it ends unsuccessfully) or a perfectly good ruck. It can't be both.

For me, wait a second or so, if the ball disappears play on, if it doesn't , maul ended unsuccessfully

[Dickie E]

That view now seems to have been eroded to the point of non-existence.

I was with you until this bit. Is this opinion based on your observation? I don't think I have ever seen a quality referee do this.

[Marc Wakeham]

No, I reckon we have to decide if we are looking at a collapsed maul (and referee it as a maul, with turnover ball if it ends unsuccessfully) or a perfectly good ruck. It can't be both.

Stop using common sense!

[thepercy]

Fair enough.
It doesn't happen very often I think, but on those infrequent
occasions when you decide a maul has become a ruck I would advise a loud shout so that everyone realises what has happened and can play accordingly.

For instance would you now allow body rolls and similar techniques to clear out (which are allowed in a ruck but in a maul would be collapsing)?

(I just think a maul becoming a ruck is rife with complications, confusion and potential gotchas)

Body rolls are only allowed on players that are poaching. The ruck forms when the ball his the ground and the players are bound over it, so there wouldn't be and poachers to roll.

[Dickie E]

For me, wait a second or so, if the ball disappears play on, if it doesn't , maul ended unsuccessfully

disappears???

[crossref]

Played away

[ctrainor]

Good debate guys.
I believe I got it right.
Red got the ball to the floor and the ball was clearly available to play.
Before the scrum half exercised his options the ruck collapsed accidentally.