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Thread: TWOL and "using it"

      
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    Rugby Club Member oliver's Avatar

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    Default TWOL and "using it"

    In the Munster vs Exeter game, Exeter set up what looked like a tackle with offside lines to create a situation for the 9 to clear.

    https://i.imgur.com/rEPS3BY.jpg

    If this was a ruck, the referee could call use it (as it's been clearly won by Blue) and give them 5 seconds to use it. However, I don't think this is specifically covered for a TWOL.

    How should this be refereed? Can a team stand there indefinitely or can I encourage them to use the ball and penalise them if they don't within 5s?

    Edit: Perhaps I'm over thinking it just the discussion a few months ago about how the intention is clearly to referee them differently got me thinking.
    Last edited by oliver; 20-01-19 at 14:01.

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    Referees in Scotland


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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    I referee it the same way I referee a ruck i.e. "use it" call and 5 seconds (although I really hate the 5 seconds, an eternity in real time whilst everyone stands around waiting).

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    Referees in England


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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    I referee it the same way I referee a ruck i.e. "use it" call and 5 seconds (although I really hate the 5 seconds, an eternity in real time whilst everyone stands around waiting).
    Presumably the reason why they specifically changed this, after an extensive Global Trial, from being a Ruck into being a Tackle-with-offside-lines, with different Laws, was because they DIDN'T want it refereed as a ruck


    Having said that, I don't think a call of 'use it' is going to do any harm, if needed
    Last edited by crossref; 20-01-19 at 16:01.

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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    Quote Originally Posted by oliver View Post
    ... If this was a ruck, the referee could call use it (as it's been clearly won by Blue) and give them 5 seconds to use it. However, I don't think this is specifically covered for a TWOL. How should this be refereed? Can a team stand there indefinitely or can I encourage them to use the ball and penalise them if they don't within 5s?
    Don't forget that there is a general catch-all offence of time-wasting which is a FK offence. I don't think I have ever seen it used, but it's there if you need to.

    If there was excessive fannying about, I think ATP would apply; ie Ask them to get a shift on, if that fails Tell them to get a shift on and if even that fails Penalise them.
    Last edited by Taff; 20-01-19 at 16:01.

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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    Quote Originally Posted by Taff View Post
    Don't forget that there is a general catch-all offence of time-wasting which is a FK offence. I don't think I have ever seen it used, but it's there if you need to.
    That Law applies only when the ball is dead -- it's aimed at taking too long to form lineouts, make subs or other things like that. But I agree - I have never seen it.

    If I think they are wasting time, I'll stop the watch

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    Advises in England
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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    That Law applies only when the ball is dead
    I don't think so.
    9.7
    • A player must not:
      • [...]
      • d. Waste time. Sanction: Free-kick.

    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    do you think?

    give an example of when you might use it when the ball is in play ?

    if the ball is in play I reckon it's up to the oppo to take it off you...
    Last edited by crossref; 20-01-19 at 18:01.

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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    do you think?

    give an example of when you might use it when the ball is in play ?

    if the ball is in play I reckon it's up to the oppo to take it off you...
    I was just making the point that the law does not require the ball to be dead. I agree that in most phases, the law provides for "use it" instead, but the law is there as a backstop.

    In 15s such situations are likely to be unrealistic (feigning injuries?), but in 7s I can see that a team making a last minute long break to take a one point lead might well run (walk) around in in-goal and delay touching down to use up time. They might even risk playing "piggy in the middle"!
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    t in 7s I can see that a team making a last minute long break to take a one point lead might well run (walk) around in in-goal and delay touching down to use up time. They might even risk playing "piggy in the middle"!
    I really don't think you could give a FK for either of those, though !

    I think the onus is totally on the opposition to catch and tackle the ball carrier.

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    Rugby Club Member Treadmore's Avatar

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    Default Re: TWOL and "using it"

    Quote Originally Posted by oliver View Post
    In the Munster vs Exeter game, Exeter set up what looked like a tackle with offside lines to create a situation for the 9 to clear.

    https://i.imgur.com/rEPS3BY.jpg

    If this was a ruck, the referee could call use it (as it's been clearly won by Blue) and give them 5 seconds to use it. However, I don't think this is specifically covered for a TWOL.

    How should this be refereed? Can a team stand there indefinitely or can I encourage them to use the ball and penalise them if they don't within 5s?

    Edit: Perhaps I'm over thinking it just the discussion a few months ago about how the intention is clearly to referee them differently got me thinking.
    It's not the "use it" or not that concerns me with that! I wouldn't consider at least those rear two from Exeter to be "in the tackle" i.e no ruck has formed (it appears) and the ball is now out of the tackle - open play!
    Last edited by Treadmore; 20-01-19 at 20:01.

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