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Thread: unsuccessful maul restart

      
  1. #1

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    Default unsuccessful maul restart

    Chaps & Chapesses,

    under the 2019 laws it is not crystal to me what the restart is under the following scenarios. Hopefully someone can give me the definitive answer (of course, quoting relevant law):

    1. Blue ball carrier takes ball into contact, maul forms and maul becomes unplayable & ends unsuccessfully (this one is a Dorothy Dixer to get things started: Red scrum feed, "use it or lose it". Law 16.17)

    2. Blue kick a Garryowen in open play, Red player catches ball, maul forms immediately. Maul becomes unplayable & ends unsuccessfully (too easy: Red scrum feed. Law 16.18)

    Now it gets trickier:

    3. As per 2. above but the Blue kick is a penalty kick

    4. As per 2. above but the Blue kick is a restart kick (ie a kick after a score, to commence a half or a 22 drop out).

    Any takers?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #2

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    I believe any kick that starts, or restarts the game, there is a turnover IIRC, but it's been a while since I've read the specific law.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    16.18 says:

    If a maul is formed immediately after a player has directly caught an opponent’s kick in open play, a scrum that is awarded for any of the above reasons will be to the team of the ball catcher.


    and Definitions then gives us:

    Open play: The period after a kick-off, restart kick, free-kick, penalty or set piece and before the next phase, or the period between phases of play, excluding when the ball is dead.


    So it's all a bit murky.

    The 2019 book needs to be able to stand on its own legs and not rely on memories of 2017 laws.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 21-01-19 at 03:01.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    PK and Restart kicks are not "kicks in open play" (they are both kicks made to restart the game)

    So in both cases, turnover, scrum blue

    (OB . actually asked this question recentlty to RFU Laws and got the same answer ..see a recent thread . The Law turns on whether the kick was in open play, not the catch, which always is )

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    PK and Restart kicks are not "kicks in open play" (they are both kicks made to restart the game)

    So in both cases, turnover, scrum blue

    (OB . actually asked this question recentlty to RFU Laws and got the same answer ..see a recent thread . The Law turns on whether the kick was in open play, not the catch, which always is )
    OK. This then is clearly a change from 2017 (the bit about the PK). OB, do you have the vebatim advice you received that you can share please? Sorry if I missed the previous thread. I'll need to raise this locally.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    Out of the long list of changes made a year ago, I am intrigued to know why you have chosen that one to raise locally ?
    Last edited by crossref; 21-01-19 at 08:01.

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    OK. This then is clearly a change from 2017 (the bit about the PK). OB, do you have the vebatim advice you received that you can share please? Sorry if I missed the previous thread. I'll need to raise this locally.
    "If a maul forms following a kick-off or restart kick after a score or touch-down, this is not a kick from open play. If you look at Law 16.18 the video provides an example of a kick from open play" 12 October 2018
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    "If a maul forms following a kick-off or restart kick after a score or touch-down, this is not a kick from open play. If you look at Law 16.18 the video provides an example of a kick from open play" 12 October 2018
    And just to be clear, a PK is a restart. Correct?

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Out of the long list of changes made a year ago, I am intrigued to know why you have chosen that one to raise locally ?
    long list of changes? Someone should do a spreadsheet!
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #10

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    Default Re: unsuccessful maul restart

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    "If a maul forms following a kick-off or restart kick after a score or touch-down, this is not a kick from open play.

    Yep, OK got that

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    16.18 the video provides an example of a kick from open play" 12 October 2018
    Yep, OK got that too.

    what about a PK?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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