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Thread: After final whistle

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: After final whistle

    The Law Book defines what a red card means (twice in fact)

    You are suggesting using it with a different meaning, to signify that you are going to submit a report

  2. #42
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    Default Re: After final whistle

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    What is the specific meaning of a RC if you show it other than when sending a player off ? Are you using it to mean 'i am writing a report about you'
    That's a very personal communication. I consider it a more general indication to all concerned that this will be registered as a serious disciplinary matter, with possible consequences outside this event.

    Is it following the wording of the law book? No. Is it thereby incomprehensible or does it delegitimise your authority? No. It's just a signal.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: After final whistle

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    The Law Book defines what a red card means (twice in fact)

    You are suggesting using it with a different meaning, to signify that you are going to submit a report
    I'll take that as the close as we will get to you admitting you were wrong in saying


    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    ...the book says you can't show a card...
    That is does not say that you may do something, does not mean you may not do it.
    Last edited by Marc Wakeham; 23-01-19 at 21:01.

  4. #44

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    Default Re: After final whistle

    Well you are doing the sending off signal , even though the match has ended and you can no longer send anyone off

    by that logic you could also make the PK signal

    Also pointless for same reason : the match has ended and you can longer award a PK

    But you are correct , the Law makes no mention of what signals refs can make after the game has ended.. obviously really as all signals are pointless. The match is over

  5. #45
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    Default Re: After final whistle

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Well you are doing the sending off signal , even though the match has ended and you can no longer send anyone off

    by that logic you could also make the PK signal

    Also pointless for same reason : the match has ended and you can longer award a PK

    But you are correct , the Law makes no mention of what signals refs can make after the game has ended.. obviously really as all signals are pointless. The match is over

    All I wanted was your admission that you were "economical with the truth". Stick to the facts and your arguments may carry more weight. If you feel the need to missrepresent people may thing you have an agenda. Surely you would not want that?

  6. #46
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    Default Re: After final whistle

    Like I've said earlier gents. I'd expect the refs jurisdiction to extend beyond the full time whistle.

    Based on what's been said in this thread, a conduct report should only be completed by a match official (ref or otherwise). If I had been involved in an incident after a match and been told the the ref jurisdiction ends at the whistle, then I'd be appealing any disciplinary action taken as a result of a refs report. I'd be arguing that after the final whistle he becomes a member of the public and no longer able to act as a match official, since the match was finished. That would be with the statements that imply the ref's authority finishes when the match does.

    This isn't something I actually believe and I do believe that the ref's duties do not end at full time and as such whether it's written into Law or not he SHOULD be able to show a RC after the whistle. Up to at when the player get into the changing room for example.

  7. #47

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    Default Re: After final whistle

    Arab , after the game is over the ref does indeed become a member of the public. Albeit a highly respected one.

    Let's say you witness something in the clubhouse or the carpark.
    You would report it properly and you report would be taken seriously (but so could a coach make a similar report )

    You wouldn't show your red card , obviously , you would look silly

    To be clear
    .. during the game you are the ref, you send people off (making the red card signal) and file a sending off report

    After the game you can cite people for misconduct and write a misconduct report
    But you can't send them off , that doesn't make sense , any more than it would to award a PK

    When is the dividing line from one to the other ?

    You could argue that the dividing line is when you leave the pitch ... But sometimes you might be on the pitch fifteen minute after a game has ended, chatting . You wouldn't attempt to send someone off then

    The dividing line that makes sense is when the match ends
    Last edited by crossref; 24-01-19 at 12:01.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: After final whistle

    The ref is still a match official, as far as (e.g.) abuse in the clubhouse afterwards might be treated.

    While I'm on the pitch chatting after the game, dressed as a ref and surrounded by people dressed as players and coaches, then other players, spectators, etc can make perfect sense of a red card. Most people know that a red card, besides meaning "leave the field", is followed by a report, disciplinary procedure, potential ban, when shown by a ref to a player. When I'm showered and changed and getting into my car, less so.

    To me, the dividing line that makes sense (if forced to choose a particular point for someone very attached to black-and-white thinking) would be leaving the pitch after the game.

  9. #49

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    Default Re: After final whistle

    The standard used for determining if an action is sufficient to justify a report is whether a RC would have been issued had the action happened during a game. Thus I think it doesn't really matter whether you show a RC for an event after the whistle or not, but I think that Rich_NL gets that balance about where I would also put it.

  10. #50

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    Default Re: After final whistle

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    T


    d. Most people know that a red card, besides meaning "leave the field", .
    Can you actually make a anyone leave the pitch after the game has ended ?

    I don't think you can, and therefore would be unwise to wave the card
    Last edited by crossref; 24-01-19 at 19:01.

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