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Thread: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

      
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    Default Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    As before .. give yourself as much time as you would on field to make the decision and answer just A B C D E

    No Law Spoilers .

    I will give the answer tomorrow and then we can have a Law discussion if we need it

    Blue are awarded a PK
    Blue #9 takes a quick tap, and several Blue players are in front of him when the PK is taken

    A Scrum to Red
    B Play on (but offside in general play applies)
    C Play on, but blue players must retire until put onside
    D Play on, but blue players must stand still until put on side
    E Take the PK again
    Last edited by crossref; 31-01-19 at 07:01.

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    Don't recall a specific law reference so I'll go with B, you're offside but keep out of the way.

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    I would go with B as well, providing that Blue #9 has taken the PK tap at the correct mark and the offside Blue team-mates aren't interfering.

    My reasoning, without looking in the law book: I don't think team-mates ahead of the PK-taker has a specific reference in the PK Law (20? I'm still not au fait with the renumbering), which means we have to use offside/onside in general play (Law 10 post renumbering?). In general play, being offside is not an offence in itself, but players are liable to penalty if they prevent an onside opponent playing as they wish or move forward towards the ball.

    It's not C, because the requirement to retire only applies to offside lines established by ruck/maul/line-out or 10-metre law.

    B and D aren't mutually exclusive - the general play offside law doesn't require the offside players to retire, but does forbid them from moving forwards toward the ball... though in the situation as described, this probably isn't possible since the ball is tapped behind them, and at the point the ball passes them they will have been put onside again anyway.
    If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... you must be a rugby referee!

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe..." - Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    As an aside, I'm quite enjoying these mini-quizzes. Bravo, crossref!
    If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... you must be a rugby referee!

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe..." - Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    Mf fear is that its A because it is an incorrectly taken PK. Akin to the oft-seen "ball not leaving the kickers hands".
    However, I would probably go with B in a game with the usual caveats as others have said as it was probaby not a material infringement.

    So when the 9 takes a PK by tapping the ball in his hands onto his toe, and it isnt material , I would normally play-on but remind him to take the next PK properly. However, I did disallow a try about 3 weeks ago when the 9 did the same about 5 metres from the line and ran over. Clearly material and got an advantage in doing that , hence I blew for it.
    I would apply similar empathy in this case too.

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    I've always reffed it as B(/D) - there's a restart, players in front of teammate with the ball.

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    Quote Originally Posted by CrouchTPEngage View Post
    . However, I did disallow a try about 3 weeks ago when the 9 did the same about 5 metres from the line and ran over. Clearly material and got an advantage in doing that , hence I blew for it.
    I would apply similar empathy in this case too.
    I hope you made him take it again , as per the Laws

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I hope you made him take it again , as per the Laws
    I did on that occasion. There were questions afterrwards from the coaches as to why I had disallowed 'quick positive play' !.
    Actually, now you mention it, where is the law that says they can take it again please ?

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    Quote Originally Posted by CrouchTPEngage View Post
    Actually, now you mention it, where is the law that says they can take it again please ?
    There isn;t one.

    In the same way there isn't one saying they can't.

    didds

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    Default Re: Quiz #4 .. quick tapping

    So here is (what I believe is) the correct answer.

    This is actually a surprisingly tricky question.

    What does the Law say about taking a PK ?


    Law 20
    TAKING A PENALTY OR FREE-KICK

    5 A penalty or free-kick must be taken without delay.
    6 Any player from the non-offending team may take it, other than for a free-kick awarded for a mark.
    7 The kicker must use the ball that was in play unless the referee decides it is defective.
    8 The kicker may punt, drop-kick or place-kick (other than for touch) the ball.
    9 The kicker may kick the ball in any direction.
    10 Other than the placer at a place-kick, the kicker’s team must remain behind the ball until it has been kicked.
    11 The ball must be kicked a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark. Once the kick has been successfully taken the kicker may play the ball again


    Note there is no sanction for any of those Laws, so they are requirements rather than infringements.

    So the answer appears to be

    E Take the PK again

    But now we have a problem as that answer clearly flies in the face of convention : we never call back a quick tap because players are in front of the ball.

    So for me (and this one is clearly my opinion, not an official answer, as it is not supported by Law, indeed I am advocating that we ignore Law 20.9 . ) I am going to follow convention and play on

    So my decision is now to choose one of
    B Play on (but offside in general play applies)
    C Play on, but blue players must retire until put onside
    D Play on, but blue players must stand still until put on side

    At this point it's probably worth mentioning that until quite recently the Law used to say C, players must retire. That's a possibility we must therefore take seriously, but I think we have to reject it : we can't penalise a non-retiring player for an offence that is not in the Law Book , and the same must go for D

    So IMO the best answer is

    B Play on, but players in front of the kick are Offside in general play so cannot interfere with play
    Last edited by crossref; 31-01-19 at 21:01.

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