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Thread: Two catchers

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    You are forgetting that a Maul formed DIRECTLY from a catch has a slightly different result if it ends Unsuccessfully
    No, that is my whole point !

    Green kicked

    If green catch it, maul forms, maul dies, turnover scrum white

    If white catch it, maul forms, maul dies, no turnover , scrum white

    Either way it's scrum white
    Last edited by crossref; 03-02-19 at 12:02.

  2. #12
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    If green catch it from a kick in open play, scrum green. Unless I'm missing something in the laws.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    If green catch it from a kick in open play, scrum green. Unless I'm missing something in the laws.
    yes you missed this bit : bolded


    16.18 If a maul is formed immediately after a player has directly caught an opponent’s kick in open play, a scrum that is awarded for any of the above reasons will be to the team of the ball catcher.


    Green kicked it
    - if green catch it, maul forms, maul dies, turnover > scrum white
    - if white catch it, maul forms, maul dies, NO turnover > scrum white

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    If green catch it from a kick in open play, scrum green. Unless I'm missing something in the laws.
    Has to be an opponents kick.
    It was a green kick...so catching your own kick doesnt give you the feed in an unsuccessful maul.

    Edit: beaten by CR!!
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

  5. #15
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    Ah, under law 19 it doesn't specify "opponent", I thought it was all moved there. Thanks!

  6. #16

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    Ah, under law 19 it doesn't specify "opponent", I thought it was all moved there. Thanks!
    Ah, now that's interesting, I hadn't noticed Law 19.


    An unplayable maul after kick in open play.
    Who puts in
    The team in possession at the start of the maul.


    So Law 19 contradicts Law 16 !


    So now I understand what's going on in this thread ! -- some of us are reading Law 16 while others are reading Law 19.


    What a mess.
    Can't believe it has taken us a year to notice that!
    Last edited by crossref; 03-02-19 at 13:02.

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    I heard ref say both players caught it at the same time, so he gave put in to attacking team

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    Quote Originally Posted by ianh5979 View Post
    I heard ref say both players caught it at the same time, so he gave put in to attacking team
    There is a precedent for it.

    IIRC if 2 opposing players are holding onto the ball when it goes to touch, the attacking team get the throw in.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Two catchers

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Ah, now that's interesting, I hadn't noticed Law 19.

    So Law 19 contradicts Law 16 !


    So now I understand what's going on in this thread ! -- some of us are reading Law 16 while others are reading Law 19.


    What a mess.
    Can't believe it has taken us a year to notice that!
    I think you have to do a lot of reading in context, but you can avoid a contradiction.

    I'd have said law 19 is intended to be a quick summary of the full law set out at 16.18, and therefore should be read in context of that; I'd have thought the majority of the time a maul forming from a kick in open play will be because the non-kicking team has caught the ball and is immediately swamped by the kick-chase, with catcher's team mates attempting to help out or at least not lose masses of ground. In this normal scenario, the summary is correct. It's only in the rare event that a kicking team manages to catch its own kick and then is immediately engulfed in a maul that the full wording of 16.18 makes clear the kicking team don't get the put-in.


    Equally, despite it only being mentioned in the part of law 19 concerning an unsuccessful end to a maul, and not repeated in the section concerning an unplayable maul from a kick in open play, the proviso as to what happens if the ref cannot decide who had possession at the start of the maul must surely be intended to apply to both - and that seems to be the basis on which Garces made his decision.

    To my mind, that would seem the most sensible way of interpreting the various provisions. Although it would mean that if your opponent kicked the ball into your half of the field, and you and an opponent go up to claim the catch and you both get hands on it, you would be better off ceding the ball and then wrapping the ball carrier up the moment he hits the ground with a bid to form a maul then, rather than continuing to wrestle for possession.

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Two catchers

    you are saying go with Law 16 -- and I'd agree.

    but you can hardly fault a ref for going with Law 19

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