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Thread: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Hmmm. Thing is player 1 has created a situation that player 2 (especially at this age group and levels of understanding and technical skillsets) has no answer to. given these age groups etc it is also possible that player 2 didn;t even realise how dangerous his actions were.

    By pinging player 2 - even with a chat to player 1 - you have just rewarded player 1 for a dangerous, stupid, illegal and unfair practice.
    So it makes more sense to me to ping player 1 for creating the illegal (hips bel;ow shoulders etc0 position and have a chat to player 2 for his actions.

    The only way it should enbd up with player 1's team receving the PK is IF it was clear and obvious that player 2 had definitely targetted player 1s neck in any way that may iot obvious that he knew it was dangerous but did it anyway. Im not saying that's an easy call.

    Though that said in a perfect world a very loud blast to stop play before the impact arrived (ie player 2) would be best. With a chat to player 1 at least - scrum to tackled player's team or PK then as ref sees fit. I see merits in both sanctions.


    IANAR, and am probably wrong!


    didds
    Didds gets my vote here - the first offence was the ball carrier's team mate sealing off the ball by adopting a dangerous (to him) position. I would hope I spotted it and quickly went with a PK against. The arriving opponent probably also joined with head below hips, and whilst you could and should PK him if it was C&O foul play, from the description it wasn't. Be careful also about allowing arriving players to roll defenders away, often they will have bound too high for this to be legal

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

    Agree with above, whilst player 2 action was dangerous, it is a function of the offence caused by player 1 who is not supporting their body weight. At this level I would argue player 2 was not intentionally trying to injure or even offend, they were impacting the ruck but it just so happens the natural impact point was a dangerous part of player 1's body.

    As others have said I would be blowing before player 2 arrived to 1. punish the original offence and 2. prevent the dangerous contact from occurring. People have referred to doing this for U11, I would do this at any level. If I can see a player has put themselves in a position where they are possibly going to get hurt I will blow and stop the game. In this case there is a clear penalty offence, but I will blow for safety and frequently do if I see a player in a poor position, usually in ruck and about to get trampled on. I'd rather stop an award a scrum than wait 10 minutes for the injury to be treated afterwards.

  3. #13
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

    For avoidance of doubt I meant FK against Player 1 for head below hips that created this scenario, agree with the other posts that player 2 is innocent in this scenario

  4. #14

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    Default Re: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    This is not squeezball from the description. It is a player standing over the player on the floor (who is presenting the ball lengthwise), but with his head below hips putting himself in a vulnerable position.
    In which case I assume he can't be staying on his feet - which is an offence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    .... If the first he needs penalising, and the first player needs re-educating on "arrive up".
    I assume the phrase "arrive up" is the same as our "planes taking off, not planes coming down".

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

    What is the "Post-box" position. Sorry it sounds like squeezeball to me.

  6. #16
    Moderator Attention - New Usergroup Required tewdric's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    What is the "Post-box" position. Sorry it sounds like squeezeball to me.
    I'm guessing the long present.

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    Default Re: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

    Quote Originally Posted by tewdric View Post
    I'm guessing the long present.
    Yes by postbox I meant a long present.

    There was no squeeze ball on this occasion, tackled player was correctly presenting ball in long present position. Covering team (player 1) arrived to protect the tackled player. Rather than standing in a tower of power position he had his head and shoulders lower than his hips with his hands gripping the shirt of the tackled team mate. He was on his feet at all times but had his neck and head exposed to the oncoming opposition player (player 2).

    Player 1 body position was really low meaning that player 2 couldn't drive under him. Instead player 2 drove straight head on into player 1 making contact with exposed neck and head area.

    Really grateful with feedback received from everyone regarding this.

    The scary thing for me was the ref whom was also the coach of player 2's team let it go completely.

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Help on understanding a ruck technicality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lordy77 View Post
    The scary thing for me was the ref whom was also the coach of player 2's team let it go completely.
    Ah - Id got player 1 and 2 the wrong way around - sorry.

    didds

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