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Thread: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

      
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    Default 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    Apologies if I accidentally double posted. I searched the forum for similar topics but found nothing relevant.

    I was discussing this issue with one of the most experienced colleagues in our union. It's about a praxis our appointers use frequently, due to the low number of active referees we have, namely they sometimes appoint only one AR for a given match, according to the principle "better one than nothing", hence ending up with one AR and one TJ (from either team). In my view this collides with law 6.19:

    "There are two assistant referees or two touch judges for every match. Unless they have been appointed by or under the authority of the match organiser, each team provides a touch judge"

    His reply was that I am taking the law too literally, but I am not convinced. On the other hand, his extensive experience and the fact that he is a native speaker while I am not makes me question my interpretation of the law.

    Anybody got direct experience, better arguments, or official documentation to sort it out?

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    Do you have any examples of this causing a problem?

    The only difference in law between a TJ and an AR is that the latter can formally report foul play. Other duties, such as advising the players on offside lines at scrums and lineouts, are not mentioned. An ARs duties are assigned by the referee. If it were seen to be a problem, then the referee could ask the AR not to report foul play.

    Personally I prefer the pragmatic to the legalistic view.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    One issue I can see is that it is difficult for the referee to manage it correctly during the game: if he wants to make full use of the one AR he's got, he should adapt an asymmetrical way of managing the breakdowns. He might end up having to choose between a very difficult pattern of running lines and positioning or basically "degrading" his only AR to a TJ. Moreover fairness requires the teams to switch their TJs at half-time. Another thing to think about. My point is that it seems to cause more harm than good.
    What's an AR good for if he can't report foul play by the way? Isn't it the reason number one to have ARs?

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadRef77 View Post
    A "better one than nothing",
    This ^^^

    It happens here all the time. No big deal.

    If I was the AR and you told me not to report foul play for some kind of balance reasons I'd give you your flag back and wish you all the best.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    This ^^^

    It happens here all the time. No big deal.

    If I was the AR and you told me not to report foul play for some kind of balance reasons I'd give you your flag back and wish you all the best.
    Why would you be so touchy about this? I know it is effectively deskilling you however it would be done for reasons of parity with the person on the opposite line.

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    I wasn't the one suggesting the single AR shall not report foul play.

    I wonder then: how do you handle the issues I mentioned above?

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    I think you are being too literal in your interpretation. however, there are potentil issues.

    1: When you have two "non-impartial TJ" any "cheating balances out. If only one line is run by a "non-impartial TJ" there is greater risk of cheating.

    2: also players may get frustrated with activities are beign called on one side of the pitch but not the other.

    I guess the appointers must consider any "history" etc in the fixture. They may feel that, one extra pair of eyes is, indeed, better than none.

    If I was presented with such a situation I would suggest that one team provides the first half TJ and the other side provides the second half TJ.

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadRef77 View Post
    Moreover fairness requires the teams to switch their TJs at half-time.
    As posted above I would suggest this. But if one side did not wish to provide a TJ for half. That would be their call. NO COMPLAINTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by MadRef77 View Post
    One issue I can see is that it is difficult for the referee to manage it correctly during the game: if he wants to make full use of the one AR he's got, he should adapt an asymmetrical way of managing the breakdowns. He might end up having to choose between a very difficult pattern of running lines and positioning
    I think a good referee, the standard that is likely to get ARs wil cope just fine with it. Some of our guys get ARs one week and none the next they, generally transition well.


    Quote Originally Posted by MadRef77 View Post

    What's an AR good for if he can't report foul play by the way? Isn't it the reason number one to have ARs?
    That is not relevant. THe AR CAN report foul play. The TJ can't (as normal).

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    Switching TJs at half time would be the sensible thing to do.

    On a separate note, in association football there must be either two ARs or two TJs (actually club linesmen but whatever), no mixed team is allowed AFAIK.

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    Default Re: 1 AR and 1 TJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    Why would you be so touchy about this?
    Because when a player gets dropped on his head and his coach asks me why I ignored it, I wouldn't have a credible answer except "the ref told me to ignore it". Not for me.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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