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Thread: 6N Scotland V Ireland

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    IANAR. But I'll stab a guess at why they think that (and TBH I don;t have an issue with that referee approach either)

    Its subterfuge. Nothing wrong with subterfuge in itself.

    But... its subterfuge that is at least tacitly involving the referee's complicity. A complicity that leaves the referee in a compromising position.

    Maybe the alternative would be to shout "NO POSTS CALLED" instead and let play continue?

    didds

  2. #12

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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    8.20 If the team indicates to the referee the intention to kick at goal, they must kick at goal.The intention to kick can be communicated to the referee or signalled by the arrival of
    the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on the ground.

    Pointing at the posts is a clear indication. This is also a signal for the ARs/TJs to move round behind the posts and therefore not be available to mark the line of touch.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #13
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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    Does the ref not indicate to the TJs/ARs when the decision has been made? If he'd (the player) just pointed at the posts and said nothing else, I'd be with you but the player in this case would've specifically told the ref that he WASN'T going for the posts. If you'd given an option for a scrum or lineout and the player pointed to the place the scrum would be and said lineout please, would you make them scrum down? In the hypothetical example they captain has communicated of the intention not to kick for the posts, and just pointed at the posts as an visual aid. Yes this may well be an attempt to fool the defence but I'd expect the defence to still be alert as the ref hasn't instructed the TJs/ARs to go behind the posts.

  4. #14

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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    Its still involving the referee in the duplicity. Its unfair to compromise his position as a neutral once he knows of the duplicity that is evident to the opposition.

    didds

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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    If they tried that with me I wouldnt make them go for posts , but I wouldn't let them quick tap either

    If they questioned why I called back the tap, I would say : you confused me as well..

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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    Interesting responses, strange that we don't see it more often. I would disagree on a player indicating for a kick at goal and not taking it as this requires both officials and the opposition to move.

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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    But it's not involving the ref. As he can say loudly to the touch judges to stay where they are. Thus giving the defending team the chance to react to the tap/kick for touch.

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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by nhughes View Post
    Interesting responses, strange that we don't see it more often. I would disagree on a player indicating for a kick at goal and not taking it as this requires both officials and the opposition to move.
    The question is though, that with the verbal communication to the ref, by pointing at the posts, is the player indicating for a kick for goal or not?

    Lets flip it. If a player point to touch and says to the ref, I'm kicking for the posts ref/sir. What would you do?

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    If you are kicking for goal it requires the opposition to retreat which puts them at a disadvantage, if as happened on Saturday it's a quick tap instead of going over the line it's up to the defence to stay switched on so if the player says he is kicking for goal then that's what he is doing.

    It would be pretty difficult to accrue an advantage from indicating for touch then kicking for goal so pretty unlikely.

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    Default Re: 6N Scotland V Ireland

    But the requirement is for the offending team to be 10m (or on the try line whichever is closer). They don't need to retreat any further than normal, so no disadvantage to the defending team. Unless they didn't react in time to the change.

    But to go back to the OP. I don't think there was a signal, he just shaped like he was going to kick for touch then didn't.

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