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Thread: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

      
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    Default Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    At 5mins, Ireland V Scotland, you'll see on this youtube link:

    https://youtu.be/Z1I4PWKjjzs?t=971

    if you jump into 16:14 Bundee Aki is penalised for hands in ruck. But he enters thru and since he is at the ball can he not just pick up, since he is the last man?


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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    Bad call. No true ruck formed, only TWOL, unless you consider incidental contact with Blue.

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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    I was surprised he got away with us much as he did , all of match .
    For me he has gone off his feet past the ball . His right hand supports his weight = off your feet & very material .
    And at that point he took up space that wasnt his & it stopped scotish player the freedom that he now has , to pick up ball .
    Penalty all day long ..

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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    Bad call. No true ruck formed, only TWOL, unless you consider incidental contact with Blue.
    Even if it was a ruck, what's wrong with what Aki did? He is the last man so surely can pick up the ball and leave the so called ruck?

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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    I agree with the right hand. But if poite called hands in ruck. That's not the right call.

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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    Quote Originally Posted by breako View Post
    Even if it was a ruck, what's wrong with what Aki did? He is the last man so surely can pick up the ball and leave the so called ruck?
    IMO..the first player trying to clean out Aki forms the ruck. Aki is now part of the ruck. When the ruck crumbles and Aki is only one standing the ball still technically has not left the ruck. Therefore Aki cant just step through and pick up.the ball (which is still in the ruck). IMO all Aki had to do was step past the ball. If he did that the ball is now out of the ruck.
    So for me the ball hasn't left the ruck and that's why Aki cant pick it up. That's the technical view.
    It looks ok I know and other than the momentary off feet I wouldnt have opposed if Poite let it play on either.
    Probably a 50/50 that could have let go.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    well this is what happoens when we get to a situation where a pile of bodies on the floor, with nobody in contcat over the ball is still a ruck.

    its hardly surprising that in the heat of battle people mistake the ball on the floor with nobody over it as not a ruck situation.

    maybe if the people ending up on the floor were penalsied for being off their feet this rubbish would just go away?

    didds

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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    well this is what happoens when we get to a situation where a pile of bodies on the floor, with nobody in contcat over the ball is still a ruck.

    s
    Isnt this the "dead ruck" concept that was introduced in the pre season guidelines six months ago, and then immediately forgotten all about

    The guideline said that if, in that situation, the ball is clearly exposed then the ruck is over.

    So it's ok to pick it up .

    We talked about it here for a while, it amounted to a new law, a new way a ruck could end

    After about three weeks, though , everyone forgot all about it, thank goodness. New Laws should be in the Law Book, with highlights
    Last edited by crossref; 5 Days Ago at 09:02.

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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    Quote Originally Posted by menace View Post
    IMO..the first player trying to clean out Aki forms the ruck. Aki is now part of the ruck. .
    This is the nub. As soon as he puts a hand on the ball, its hands in the ruck.

    Correct call IMO
    "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed"
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    Default Re: Scotland V Ireland at 5 mins

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Isnt this the "dead ruck" concept that was introduced in the pre season guidelines six months ago, and then immediately forgotten all about

    The guideline said that if, in that situation, the ball is clearly exposed then the ruck is over.

    So it's ok to pick it up .

    We talked about it here for a while, it amounted to a new law, a new way a ruck could end

    After about three weeks, though , everyone forgot all about it, thank goodness. New Laws should be in the Law Book, with highlights
    We have something sort of similar in our Game Management Guidelines.
    "Ball out and collapsed ruck
    • The ball is only out of a ruck (or scrum) when it is totally exposed or it is clear of bodies.
    • If the ball is being dug out (after being won) or is under the feet of players at the back of the ruck, the
    scrum-half cannot be touched until the ball is clearly out of the ruck. The benefit of any doubt must
    go to the scrum-half.
    Players cannot step through or over the middle of a collapsed ruck before the ball is cleared or the ball
    is completely clear of bodies. These players are unbound and in front of the last feet and are therefore
    offside.

    • Zero tolerance on defending players at the ruck who target the scrum-half before they have the ball,
    even if the ball is out of the ruck. Any onside player must play the ball and not the player."

    So in the situation being discussed - what you rule will come down to your interpretation of the ruck being formed and then the ball being clear of bodies.
    Tell em it's Law 23 and smile

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