View Poll Results: Is the ball OUT ?

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    16 80.00%
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Thread: Is the ball out?

      
  1. #31
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    this sort of thing doesn't happen in the community game, does it ? In my games forwards ALWAYS pile in and we ALWAYS get a ruck..

    but in the pro game, my inclination is that ref shouldn't call 'use it' until white deign to contest for the ball and therefore a ruck is created
    Actually I quite often get the opposite, especially once players get tired. We get a TWOL with oppo forwards just in front but not engaged, then inevitably one decides to do some pointless should barge / lift dump thing at the exact second the ball is passed away and my eyes are elsewhere!

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    This is in no way a criticism and It may just be a slip of the mouse finger but I am confused by the logic of the 1 voter who thinks A is out but B isn’t. Surely if you think A is out B must be also. Am I missing something?

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    what if there is no red player left on their feet to engage with and they've both for example in the top pictures fallen to ground? Nobody to engage with = no ruck. Peyper has we know decided white cannot play the ball and presumably just running over it won;t achieve anything - except maybe a PK for offside. the waiting half back cant be cleared - he isn't over the ball.
    In that situation why can't white can enter the tackle area from the direction of their own goal line (through "the gate"), not creating a ruck - because there is no red player to create a ruck with, and freely pick up the ball?

    In my view, Peyper penalised BV for doing exactly not that...

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wedgie View Post
    In that situation why can't white can enter the tackle area from the direction of their own goal line (through "the gate"), not creating a ruck - because there is no red player to create a ruck with, and freely pick up the ball?
    But if the ball isn't "out" in the eyes of the ref that doesn't work either?

    Pretty much what Billy V did only he came around the edge of the heardguard player that wasnt actually over the ball to start with?

    didds

  5. #35
    Rugby Club Member Pedro's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    This is in no way a criticism and It may just be a slip of the mouse finger but I am confused by the logic of the 1 voter who thinks A is out but B isn’t. Surely if you think A is out B must be also. Am I missing something?
    That was me - and it was a slip of the mouse, should have been option B
    (On the grounds that - by the current laws - the ball isn't away from the tackle area in A.
    I'm also pondering, what "away from the tackle area" means. If the ball hadn't "moved" in B - and was still in line with red player (Tipurics?) feet, (Which it just about is) would that be away from the tackle area?
    Learn, apply, Iterate, Learn, apply, Iterate.

  6. #36

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    I appreciate your response Pedro and I genuinely was searching to see if I'd missed something in the laws. The point that you and others are making about what "away from the tackle area" means though is well founded. The re-write (simplification) of the laws was supposed to be one pillar in making rugby more accessible to those who maybe haven't been involved in the game before but if anything it has had the reverse affect. I move from breakdown to breakdown at the weekend calling ruck or tackle only and I genuinely get the impression that if I stopped the game and asked the 30 players on the field to explain the difference I'd be struggling to muster a team of 2 or 3 who might know what I was on about.

    I'm also sure that once upon a time the laws were amended because there was a genuine feeling that the whole game could benefit. I am of the opinion now that the laws are revised/re-written only for the benefit of the TV/professional game.
    Isn't it also a very poor indictment of the game that, in an admittedly very small sample pool, not one person agrees with the decision of the match referee’s decision?

  7. #37

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    This is NOT a rewrite issue

    The TWOL was invented and added to the Law Book deliberately in Summer 2018 after the trials came to an end .

    It is a change not a re write


    Then the offside Law for rucks was changed in the 2019 Law Book
    Last edited by crossref; 26-02-19 at 16:02.

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    So basically then we are agreed universally that Peyper got this glaringly wrong?

    (not that it would have altered the overall result IMO!)

  9. #39

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    But if the ball isn't "out" in the eyes of the ref that doesn't work either?
    I am not sure why "out" matters when there is a tacked player on the ground and no-one over him.

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Pretty much what Billy V did only he came around the edge of the heardguard player that wasnt actually over the ball to start with?

    didds
    I think that is the point - he came around the edge and not through the middle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    So basically then we are agreed universally that Peyper got this glaringly wrong?
    If I am in a minority of one, what am I missing..??

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Is the ball out?

    I think I am changing my mind

    If it's a RUCK then
    A it's out of the ruck
    B it's out of the ruck

    If it's a TWOL
    A the ball is still in the tackle area
    B the ball has left the tackle area

    You can't tell from a still picture which it is (although it looks like a TWOL it could be a RUCK which people have left .. ie still a ruck )

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