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Thread: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

      
  1. #11

    Referees in Australia
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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Convention changes in the way you describe.

    The Law changes when World Rugby write a new Law in the Law Book


    What's the correct answer to the Quiz question?
    I think it is clear that the quiz is out of date. You're over egging this pudding
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #12

    Referees in England


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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I think it is clear that the quiz is out of date. You're over egging this pudding
    The reason I am persisting is to try and nail down OB's suggestion that the Law is something different from what it written in the Law Book.

    OB is implying that if - right now in 2019 - the majority of referees are ignoring 5.2.d and continuing to apply the old Law, then this would mean, by convention, that the Law Book is 'wrong' and in fact the Quiz gives the 'true' law answer.


    Hence trying to get OB to answer the quiz question

  3. #13

    Advises in England
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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    The reason I am persisting is to try and nail down OB's suggestion that the Law is something different from what it written in the Law Book.
    My position is that the game is played according to both law and custom, and sometimes custom prevails over law.

    The modern position on multiple offences is that the referee usually offers the other team the choice.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #14
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Well, isn't that definition of a Law Book ?

    Of course the Law Book could have a typo or similar that accidents changes the meaning.
    Or the definition of what a Law book should be. There are similar arguments in the legal world between legal literalists and those who believe a Law has an intention that may or may not be captured in words, especially in Constitution law. And then there is case law, the practical implementation of the written word.

    For example, is "second or subsequent" in the law meant to include simultaneous offences, or intended to mean "chronologically second, third, fourth, etc"? The first group say the former, the second the latter, case law seems to side with the latter.

    Laws are generally composed by highly skilled professionals, debated and amended at great length by people who aggregate the concerns and interests of many parties, and then reviewed by a second, independent body. The scope for literalism is reasonably large.

    We both know that the WR law book is not this. Certainly not since the rewrite. You're welcome to referee literally, but might not find it advantageous to the enjoyment of the game or the result of assessments.

    In this example, you're correct. However, providing examples where the quiz is wrong does not prove the infallibility of the law book, which is in any case self-contradictory.
    Last edited by Rich_NL; 05-03-19 at 14:03.

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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    @Rich_NL - What I've found is that some members take the definitions and seem to apply them generally, when you look at the definitions, you can click on them and the website indicates what Laws are applicable to that definition. I'm a bit weary of possibly applying a definition that was not intended to be relevant to the Law I'm quoting.

    So a more common sense approach would be beneficial in these instances.

  6. #16

    Referees in England


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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    Common sense suggest there is a big difference between an old Law where convention has moved on (although there should be few of those post the rewrite) and rejecting brand new Laws because they change convention

  7. #17
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Common sense suggest there is a big difference between an old Law where convention has moved on (although there should be few of those post the rewrite) and rejecting brand new Laws because they change convention
    I don't know anyone who blanket rejects the new law.

    Common sense might suggest that a law that was introduced to formalise and clarify the situation in general play might not be fully thought-through and applicable to unusual cases, and people might stick to conventions there pending a clarification or case law from the top level.

  8. #18

    Referees in England
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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kurt Weaver View Post
    I PK crooked feeds. Am I a nobody?
    Not necessarily, but the correct penalty for a crooked feed (at least the first 2-3) is a FK.


    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  9. #19

    Referees in England


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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    I don't know anyone who blanket rejects the new law.
    you haven't been reading the forum very closely ! "THERE ARE NO LAW CHANGES" comes to mind

  10. #20
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: WR Quiz - questionable ones #4

    The ball rolling to a player already on the ground was always a grey area, and judged differently by different refs even at the very top level. That's what I mean by a formalisation - it's a clarification rather than a change (although they could have just issued a clarification).

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