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Thread: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

      
  1. #21
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    I'm arguing from first principles, rather than common practice: the definition of possession as attempting to bring the ball under control (allowing a tackle on a juggling player, for example), combined with a knock on being "When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward". A kick is intentional.

  2. #22

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    There are a number of questions that have arisen from this.

    On the face of it, the ball legally emerged from the Ruck and the Red #10 was the first to arrive. As described, he kicked the ball (as defined in Law) legally and as a result the #12 scored a try. All fine and dandy.

    I am thinking here, due to body mechanics, that in order to have kicked the ball forward the Red#10 may have gone at the ball feet first. This being the case, and bearing in mind the proximity of defending players also looking to contest/win the ball, this is dangerous play and should be penalised.
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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    I'm arguing from first principles, rather than common practice: the definition of possession as attempting to bring the ball under control (allowing a tackle on a juggling player, for example), combined with a knock on being "When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward". A kick is intentional.
    Good luck selling a knock on call when its obvious to 30 players, 6 subs/substitutes, and a man with his dog that there were no arms anywhere near the ball. Credibility left?

    didds

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    but only of the ball hit an arm/hand though surely? you cant have a knock on off only the shin surely? Otherwise eg fly hacking or kicking on in a chase would be a knock on ?

    didds
    Not necessarily - losing possession of the ball and it going forwards is a knock on. In a more common example, if a player clearly failed to catch a pass, then got a toe to it before it hit the ground I'm giving a knock on.

    It's where you draw the line at 'intentional'. For me, the player has to have intended a kick before screwing up, not deciding to kick to resolve the situation.

    In the OP's case, I don't think it's possible to say one way or the other without seeing it.

  5. #25
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    On the face of it, the ball legally emerged from the Ruck and the Red #10 was the first to arrive. As described, he kicked the ball (as defined in Law) legally and as a result the #12 scored a try. All fine and dandy.
    I'd say not, he went to ground to play it. If it's a kick, it's intentional (which I'd assumed) - that's a PK (13.1) presumably precisely to discourage players sliding in boots-first to challenge for the ball.

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    Not necessarily - losing possession of the ball and it going forwards is a knock on. In a more common example, if a player clearly failed to catch a pass, then got a toe to it before it hit the ground I'm giving a knock on.
    but that isn't what is described in the OP though.

    The ball has spilled side-ways from a ruck. Multiple players see that the ball is clearly out of the ruck and is on the ground. They all move towards the ball. Red 10 is first there.
    Red 10 has never had possession to lose it.

    ???

    didds

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    There are a number of questions that have arisen from this.

    On the face of it, the ball legally emerged from the Ruck and the Red #10 was the first to arrive. As described, he kicked the ball (as defined in Law) lo

    .
    No!
    Because a kick is defined specifically as being intentional.
    All ball hitting your foot is not a kick

  8. #28
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Red 10 has never had possession to lose it.
    "Attempting to bring a ball under control" - he's gone to ground specifically to play the ball, he makes contact with it.

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    This is quite an interesting thread !

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    "Attempting to bring a ball under control" - he's gone to ground specifically to play the ball, he makes contact with it.

    WADR, I refuse to accept that a accidental or otherwise sole contact with the knee or lower on a ball in these circumstances constitutes a knock on. And neither would any player, blazer, etc watching.

    there. I said it.

    didds

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