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Thread: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrouchTPEngage View Post
    Red 10 is first there. He anticipates that there are several defenders closing onto the ball and he so he goes to groudn first and slides along the ground towards the ball. He contacts the ball with his shin and it thus goes forward into the Blue's in goal.
    Red 12 ( who was never in front of Red 10 ) now chases onto the kicked ball and grounds it in-goal.
    In real time and in real life its play on and Try.

    He slid in to try and secure the ball.
    It was knocked forward (but not a knock on as not from hands or arms) so play on.
    Onside player then grounds the ball. Try.

    If this happened in the middle of the field you would just play on, loose ball.

    Anyone trying to sell a penalty around it being (or not being) a kick is clutching at straws.

    I would suggest the try was clear, obvious and expected.

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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    This is quite an interesting thread !
    Yeah. Sorry about that ;-)
    The vision in my head is that he definitely goes to ground first ( his body and legs are parallel and close to the ground ). As he slides towards the ball, he realises he doesnt want to gather it with hands so intentionally lets his shin connect with the ball and propel it forward. This is very similar to that of soccer footballer who makes a "sliding tackle".
    The law 13.1 (b) mentions "..must immediately play(but not kick) the ball" .
    It looks like we'd be required to make a judgement call at the time as to whether a "kick" ( intentional ) has taken place or not.
    Not likely to produce consistent law interpretations from week to week, ref to ref. And we dont like these.

  3. #33

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    For me if he's intentionally hit the ball with his shin I'd give a PK
    If the ball hit him in the legs play on

    If I am not sure, knock on might be best ...

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    For me if he's intentionally hit the ball with his shin I'd give a PK
    If the ball hit him in the legs play on

    If I am not sure, knock on might be best ...
    Back to my earlier post.... why make something up if you are not sure?

    Clear and Obvious! !

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    Back to my earlier post.... why make something up if you are not sure?

    Clear and Obvious! !
    It's not obvious to me what you would do if not sure ?

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    My first impresdion was try too, intent seems to be the key. Eg if the player slipped and the ball hit his foot/knee then the try would stand too imo.

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Scrum for a knock on?? Yeah that's definitely not right. I think you'd have a job explaining that decision if you needed to. I saw Beckett's dangerous play shout. I had considered this before my comment yesterday too. Yes you're right I didn't put it in my original comment as there was no mention of Dangerous play.

    Reading that the vision in CrouchTPEngage's that he's intended to let it hit his leg might sway me to award a penalty for kicking on the ground. But it would sometimes be difficult to tell intent in real time, so benefit of the doubt may come into play and unless there was a clear and obv kick then I'd prob allow play on and a try, unless the defenders were close by (ei within a meter or so). In which case I'd award the PK.

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    Sc

    Reading that the vision in CrouchTPEngage's that he's intended to let it hit his leg might sway me to award a penalty for kicking on the ground. But it would sometimes be difficult to tell intent in real time, so benefit of the doubt may come into play and unless there was a clear and obv kick then I'd prob allow play on and a try, unless the defenders were close by (ei within a meter or so). In which case I'd award the PK.
    You are not selling that decision well to me !

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Ah CR, that's because I'm not a ref and i'm just on a forum expressing a viewpoint from the perspective of a non-ref. As a player if I'd done this and the ref pinged me for it, I'd accept that's his opinion. He won't know what's going on in my head but at the end of the day I've either intentionally allowed the ball to hit my foot/leg so it might be a stretch for a kick but there is intent or I've slid in feet first in proximity to the defending player(s). Which is dangerous play, so I'd hold my hands up and learn for next time.

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    In this thread
    http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread....tant-touchdown
    A few people concluded .. no one can really tell what happened , 5m scrum seems good outcome

    So in this thread if the incident was such that no one was really sure what happened , I can imagine circumstances where everyone would settle for a scrum, in the grounds that it's better than the try or PK they feared

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