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Thread: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    i suspect the attackers wouldn't even consider they might suffer a PK until a ref actually said so. By which time its been awarded.

    I would suggest that if you awarded a scrum and said something like they'd prefer that than a PK you'd probably have 15 attackers all scratching their heads and thinking "PK? what for?"

    that doesn't make you wrong (global "you" :-) of course.

    didds

  2. #42

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    One problem here is that we all have different pictures in our mind

    Generally speaking i think that if a player on the ground were to kick the ball every player would notice and expect a PK

    Similarly if player launched himself feet first at a loose ball , player would see that as dangerous and expect a PK or more

    In this particular incident .... they would no doubt have different opinions about whether it was kicked or not , dangerous or not .. hair as we have

  3. #43

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    What definition of possession are you using?
    At what point would you consider a player to be "attempting to bring the ball under control"?

    Any time I don't have the ball i'm trying to get it? So anytime not in physical possession?

    If I go to ground near the ball?

    As soon as I touch the ball? As soon as I touch the ball with hand or arms?

    If both sides go to ground to gather the ball, neither have touched it yet, are they both in possession?

  4. #44

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    For those arguing that it's not an intentional kick and not a knock on, has 10 "played" the ball? I.e. would you still award a try if the try scorer had been in front of 10 when it hit his shin?

  5. #45

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Yes he definitely played it
    He went to ground intending to touch it, and he touched it

  6. #46

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    So sliding legs first towards the ball and playing it with the shin = intention = kick = PK?

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tewdric View Post
    So sliding legs first towards the ball and playing it with the shin = intention = kick = PK?
    We can't answer that without seeing it, if he swings a leg at it then arguably a kick, but there's nothing in the OP to suggest that, I'm visualising it as player going to ground and the ball bouncing off his leg, so play on. Sliding legs first is not necessarily a kick (nor is it always dangerous play, but it could be)

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    At what point would you consider a player to be "attempting to bring the ball under control"?
    I don't think a strict, legalistic description is going to be very useful as it's mostly a 'you know when you see it'
    Any time I don't have the ball i'm trying to get it? So anytime not in physical possession?
    No

    If I go to ground near the ball?
    No
    As soon as I touch the ball? As soon as I touch the ball with hand or arms?
    I'd say there certainly has to be contact, but it wouldn't have to be with the hand or arms. I'd always give a knock on against player trying to take an unsympathetic pass that comes off his chest or legs when he's clearly been trying to catch it, even if it hasn't touched his hands or arms.
    Or (quite commonly) a player taking a high ball that goes straight through his arms and forward off his knees/thighs.

    If both sides go to ground to gather the ball, neither have touched it yet, are they both in possession?
    No.

  9. #49

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    I'd always give a knock on against player trying to take an unsympathetic pass that comes off his chest or legs when he's clearly been trying to catch it, even if it hasn't touched his hands or arms.

    I'd be very interested in any assessor's view of this interpretation.

    I'd be amazed if 30 players plus subs and men with dogs wouldn't be totally bemused by such.

    I have some sympathy with the full-back-non-catch scenario because at least its not C&O that the ballk did miss any contcat with arms/hands. But when the hands get nowhere near it? really?

    If that isn't what that quote means then fair enough. But it sounds like it.

    didds

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    Default Re: Player goes to ground. Can you award a try ?

    'legalistic'
    adj. (perjorative) "I disagree with your interpretation"

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